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jlisenbe · Jan 29, 2019, 12:59 PM

I actually used YOUR post and link to cross reference your article with local news TV reports.

My link only referred to about 90,000 total and 50,000 or so voting, so I have no idea how you could come up with the figures you used, but I like yours a lot better! 3 million is a lot more serious than "merely" 58,000. And you wonder why we conservatives want voter ID. Nonsense just like this is the reason why.

talaniman · Jan 30, 2019, 10:41 AM

Again from your link

were a result of an 11-month investigation with the Texas Department of Public Safety that also found that about 58,000 people on the list had voted since 1996.

23 years by my count and no telling if the status of those had changed in that time. With no prosecutions then like you're wall solution to illegal immigration, your voter fraud crisis is overblown BS!

jlisenbe · Jan 30, 2019, 10:56 AM

23 years by my count and no telling if the status of those had changed in that time. With no prosecutions then like you're wall solution to illegal immigration, your voter fraud crisis is overblown BS!

Now let's see. Millions are here illegally, with the number growing daily, but we don't need a wall. And if we use your figure, millions have voted illegally, but nothing to worry about there either. I guess we just view things differently.

paraclete · Jan 30, 2019, 02:02 PM

All those mexicans taking back the country you stole from them, how is manifest destiny looking now?

jlisenbe · Jan 30, 2019, 04:32 PM

Ever heard of the republic of Texas? Have you heard of how Mexico seceded from Spain, who had taken the land from indian nations? Check your history.

paraclete · Jan 30, 2019, 05:24 PM

The republic of Texas, a very short lived nation who gave in to manifest destiny. I expect they didn't want to be a barrier nation and so they became a barrier state. The republic of Texas stole the land. They were invited in as settlers and rebelled, starting a war, and in the longer term The US invaded Mexico and took even more land. How's that for history, not the nice sanitised version and the daring do of the Alamo is it?

You americans don't want to admit that all you want to do is expand by conquest, it is in your blood, in the very nature of your peoples extending far back in history since you are the successors to those european and asiatic hordes who were forever moving west. Enough history for you?

jlisenbe · Jan 30, 2019, 08:37 PM

As I said, Spain took land from the indians. Mexico rebelled against Spain. Texas declared its independence from Mexico. The United and Mexico fought a war resulting in Mexico ceding land to the U.S. Was it all nice and moral? Probably not, just like the history of Australia was not. Was Australia already settled by natives when your ancestors arrived? Are those natives still in control of things?

talaniman · Jan 31, 2019, 05:08 AM

Now let's see. Millions are here illegally, with the number growing daily, but we don't need a wall. And if we use your figure, millions have voted illegally, but nothing to worry about there either. I guess we just view things differently.

There is no evidence at this time that millions have voted illegally, or that a wall will stop illegals from getting here. Putting people in jail hasn't stopped drugs either, so maybe the solutions you propose to solve those problems are a waste of money and grossly inadequate.

Let's just stop listening to a lying cheating dufus and his merry band of sycophants. LOL, here in Texas the ranchers and landowners are still fighting Bush's eminent domain attempt for his FENCE. So yeah we see things very differently.

All those mexicans taking back the country you stole from them, how is manifest destiny looking now?

Everybody throughout the history of man calls their conflicts something to justify and sanitize the brutal savage and bloody actions that facilitate their conquests. That's just the history and nature of man.

paraclete · Jan 31, 2019, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

As I said, Spain took land from the indians. Mexico rebelled against Spain. Texas declared its independence from Mexico. The United and Mexico fought a war resulting in Mexico ceding land to the U.S. Was it all nice and moral? Probably not, just like the history of Australia was not. Was Australia already settled by natives when your ancestors arrived? Are those natives still in control of things?

There were natives here when the British arrived just as they were in your own nation. They were not organised hardly more than scattered family groups. There was some resistance at times but just as in your own nation gold changed everything. As to the natives being in control, they would like to be, but as a minority their voice is heard more in protest than governance but their ethos exists here. Even after 200 years they still protest invasion and the fact we dare to celebrate the arrival of those ill fated convicts

jlisenbe · Jan 31, 2019, 06:17 AM

There is no evidence at this time that millions have voted illegally,

I was using your figures. "Then they fudge the numbers for example 3 million illegals voted, and leave out the 10 year period of the finding," If there is no evidence, then why did you state that?

that a wall will stop illegals from getting here

There are some walled areas on the border. Where they are, there is very little border crossing. It is actually established that walls stop illegal crossings.

Let's just stop listening to a lying cheating dufus and his merry band of sycophants. LOL, here in Texas the ranchers and landowners are still fighting Bush's eminent domain attempt for his FENCE. So yeah we see things very differently.

So where do they find all those ranchers that have been interviewed and are in favor of a wall? And if all you Texans see things differently, then why did you overwhelmingly vote for the candidate in favor of the wall?

There were natives here when the British arrived just as they were in your own nation. They were not organised hardly more than scattered family groups. There was some resistance at times but just as in your own nation gold changed everything. As to the natives being in control, they would like to be, but as a minority their voice is heard more in protest than governance but their ethos exists here. Even after 200 years they still protest invasion and the fact we dare to celebrate the arrival of those ill fated convicts

So how did that manifest destiny work out for you? Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black?

talaniman · Jan 31, 2019, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

There were natives here when the British arrived just as they were in your own nation. They were not organised hardly more than scattered family groups. There was some resistance at times but just as in your own nation gold changed everything. As to the natives being in control, they would like to be, but as a minority their voice is heard more in protest than governance but their ethos exists here. Even after 200 years they still protest invasion and the fact we dare to celebrate the arrival of those ill fated convicts

The British conquered everybody at one time or another, but like most empires, they have shrunk, but Australia like America became independent and even trusted allies because of that common ancestry. Alliances are often better than colonies, and no doubt all intend to keep it that way. You overwhelmed the natives just with NUMBERS since you had the power to declare your migrants LEGAL and sanctioned by the British government (And then the Australian government). Pretty much how the America's were conquered by the British with competing Euro interests. What money couldn't buy people with guns could, and did.

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I was using your figures. "Then they fudge the numbers for example 3 million illegals voted, and leave out the 10 year period of the finding," If there is no evidence, then why did you state that?

I was just reporting JL, the figures they used which THEY fudged, but it's not the numbers, but the SPIN because to create certain laws and sell them to the public there must be a crisis or condition to justify them. I mean FACT is though there are cases of fraud, why aren't there 3 MILLION people going to jail? So despite all the rhetoric and legislation they haven't caught but a handful of people as the said article points out, so evidence points to a great exaggeration of the problem, to mask another intent.

There are some walled areas on the border. Where they are, there is very little border crossing. It is actually established that walls stop illegal crossings.

Another fact people don't know is that border guards already know full well the flaws in the fence and that's where they concentrate the resources. Go ahead, build a wall, and somebody blows a hole in it and floods the zone with people to overwhelm the guards patrolling that area. Imagine blowing 4 holes in your wall and flooding people through them. LOL, even for every tunnel you find imagine 8 more that you don't.

So where do they find all those ranchers that have been interviewed and are in favor of a wall? And if all you Texans see things differently, then why did you overwhelmingly vote for the candidate in favor of the wall?

Dude Texas is a huge state, and a republican voting one, even with all us liberals running around. Many didn't vote because of this wall nonsense, or despite it, but if you need more links besides the ones I have already supplied then here we go.

https://www.npr.org/2017/02/23/51689...on-border-wall

Large federal land acquisition projects typically take years. Today, 91of the landowner cases in South Texas remain open and evenmore are expected. When Trump signed his executive order last month calling for his "big beautiful wall," Hanen knew what that would mean. "What I thought was, 'Oh, this is going to be a lot more work for us,' " Hanen says. "It's gonna be a lot of headache. The people in South Texas, there are a lot of hard feelings about the wall."

So how did that manifest destiny work out for you? Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black?

Australians have a right to call the conquest of their land anything they want.

jlisenbe · Jan 31, 2019, 07:51 AM

I was just reporting JL, the figures they used which THEY fudged

You believed the figures, wherever you got them from, enough to state them. You can't have it both ways.

Yeah, those Mexicans are always blowing up walls and then rushing thousands of illegals through. It's happened so many times in the past, like ZERO times. Next you'll be saying they'll use army tanks to demolish the wall and then army trucks to rush the illegals through. You do have a vivid imagination. I'll give you that. As for the tunnels, that is a threat, but having to use tunnels means the numbers are reduced to a relative trickle, and if we can cut illegal immigration by 80% or 90% by constructing a wall, then I'm all for it.

No, I will not look up your article. It will be no more useful than the last ten ones you have posted.

Again, Texas voted overwhelmingly for the guy who promised to build the wall. No, I do not believe that Texas is opposed to the wall.

talaniman · Jan 31, 2019, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You believed the figures, wherever you got them from, enough to state them. You can't have it both ways.

Yeah, those Mexicans are always blowing up walls and then rushing thousands of illegals through. It's happened so many times in the past, like ZERO times. Next you'll be saying they'll use army tanks to demolish the wall and then army trucks to rush the illegals through. You do have a vivid imagination. I'll give you that. As for the tunnels, that is a threat, but having to use tunnels means the numbers are reduced to a relative trickle, and if we can cut illegal immigration by 80% or 90% by constructing a wall, then I'm all for it.

No, I will not look up your article. It will be no more useful than the last ten ones you have posted.

Again, Texas voted overwhelmingly for the guy who promised to build the wall. No, I do not believe that Texas is opposed to the wall.

Don't underestimate what Mexicans, or Central Americans will do, nor their resourcefulness. Yeah blowing a hole through the wall was a hypothetical as was your assumption that all Texans are for the wall. 4 in 10 Texans did vote for Hillary. So it's very accurate to say a lot of Texans oppose the wall. I can say that about most Americans in general, especially if you shut the government down to get it.

Sorry you don't read my links or disagree with them, so I won't present the FACTS to back my assertion that illegal immigration has gone down in the last decade and deportations are up, WITHOUT A WALL, and I can get a lot of people and dope through a tunnel you didn't/haven't found, but most of it comes through the LEGAL points of entry with commerce. To add a growing number of your illegals flew here LAWFULLY, but stayed after their documents expired, and a wall won't help that.

So let me ask about the dufus plan to spend my tax dollars on walls and such to keep illegals out while employing hundred at his personal properties. Is that hypocrisy, or should we believe he just didn't know?

jlisenbe · Jan 31, 2019, 09:47 AM

your assumption that all Texans are for the wall.

Your imagination is at work again. I have never said or assumed that.

You are correct that the wall will not stop all illegal crossings, anymore than you locking your door will prevent thieves (or Mueller's team!) from breaking in, but it does make it more difficult and therefore less likely. The wall does the same thing.

Politifact says illegal immigration is the lowest in 17 years, but that is based on how many were caught crossing, so I don't know how accurate that "guesstimate" would be. Still, sounds reasonable. I think we would agree that we also need to address the issue of the millions who are here now and are unlikely to simply return home.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...rs-trump-said/

Wondergirl · Jan 31, 2019, 11:16 AM

You are correct that the wall will not stop all illegal crossings ... but it does make it more difficult and therefore less likely. The wall does the same thing.

Nope, the wall won't do that. Instead, it will prevent family and business interactions between people living in the two countries, prevent animal migrations, anger Texans whose private property is taken by the federal government, and won't be high enough or deep enough. A wall didn't work for Hadrian or the Chinese, nor did the Berlin Wall work for East Germany.

Why not remove our lust for illegal drugs? That includes legalizing certain ones and getting serious about treating drug addiction. If there's no market....

jlisenbe · Jan 31, 2019, 11:36 AM

Nope, the wall won't do that. Instead, it will prevent family and business interactions between people living in the two countries, prevent animal migrations, anger Texans whose private property is taken by the federal government, and won't be high enough or deep enough. A wall didn't work for Hadrian or the Chinese, nor did the Berlin Wall work for East Germany.

You don't know your history. All three walls you mentioned worked quite well for a long period of time. In fact, the Berlin wall worked so well that one of the first acts upon the fall of the Soviets was to dismantle it. And, of course, there will still be crossing points, as there are now, so business and LEGITIMATE crossings will not be affected. As to migrations, that is also already in discussion as to how to mitigate those effects.

Remove our lust for illegal drugs by legalizing them? Yes. That will certainly dial back their use. Are you kidding? Show me where the legalization of drugs has resulted in their use diminishing. Dope is now legal in Cally and Colo. Has the use increased or decreased? We have a "fun mentality" in our country and a loss of appreciation that all we have came from, and belongs to, God. We have lost the sense of the value of life and a responsibility to use our's wisely. Maybe we could start emphasizing that.

Wondergirl · Jan 31, 2019, 12:04 PM

I said legalizing CERTAIN ones. How you misquote and change what was meant!

P.S. Building a wall is stoopid.

jlisenbe · Jan 31, 2019, 12:32 PM

If you say you want to legalize "certain ones", then you want to legalize drugs. I didn't suggest you wanted to legalize them all. I don't think I changed your meaning, but OK. Which "certain ones" would you legalize?

tomder55 · Jan 31, 2019, 02:58 PM

um there is an OBVIOUS difference between a border fence to keep invaders out and the Berlin wall intended to keep East Germans enslaved . Both the Dems and Republicans supported and paid for a 274 mile wall between Jordan and Iraq and Syria to keep the Islamic State out of Jordon last year . Spare me the nonsense that walls don't work . The Egyptian steel wall in the Sinai has been very effective in stopping smuggling into or from Egypt by Hamas . Spain's wall has been effective in reducing human trafficking from Morocco . In 2014, approximately 19,000 people attempted to cross into Spain.. That number diminished to approximately 3,700 in 2015 .There have been a number of new walls built in Europe to stem the flow of migrants .

Wondergirl · Jan 31, 2019, 03:10 PM

The ones trying to cross are refugees looking for a safe place to live and immigrants looking for work that pays a living wage. The drugrunners come here from China via the ocean ports. (And from Canada -- hmmmm, we need a wall....)

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

If you say you want to legalize "certain ones", then you want to legalize drugs. I didn't suggest you wanted to legalize them all. I don't think I changed your meaning, but OK. Which "certain ones" would you legalize?

Yes, you changed my meaning!!!!!

I haven't researched which currently illegal drugs are being used and which of those should be legalized. *putting on my librarian hat*