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jlisenbe · Apr 9, 2019, 11:09 AM

Why is it that when we want to have a discussion about abortion, you suddenly become concerned with the commands of Jesus, but when we talk about our southern border, you suddenly disregard His commands? You sure are selective in your outrage.

Jesus had a lot to say about life and nothing to say about immigration. I'm not sure how you can equate the deliberate and violent destruction of innocent unborn children with trying to have border security. And thus you have again identified yourself as a liberal.

talaniman · Apr 9, 2019, 12:57 PM

You make liberal sound like a bad word as compared to conservative and most of us are a mix of both depending on the issue.

waltero · Apr 9, 2019, 03:15 PM

By the time they've reached the wall, it's too late.

What wall?

People Don't head to the border to greet a wall.

tomder55 · Apr 9, 2019, 03:20 PM

I say arm them ;train them ,and send them back . Let them fight for their own country if they are truely fleeing oppression.If they are coming here for the economic opportunity then they are not eligible for asylum status and there is an orderly procees that legal immigrants follow.

Wondergirl · Apr 9, 2019, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Jesus had a lot to say about life and nothing to say about immigration. I'm not sure how you can equate the deliberate and violent destruction of innocent unborn children with trying to have border security. And thus you have again identified yourself as a liberal.

Did you notice how I merely reversed the subjects when I copied and pasted what you had commented to me? Yes, Jesus had a lot to say about life -- and about the lives of refugees and immigrants. (Psssst, I am a humanist and a Christian.)

jlisenbe · Apr 9, 2019, 03:30 PM

What did He say about the lives of refugees and immigrants, and in particular about illegal immigrants?

I am a humanist and a Christian.

To be truly a humanist (which is to say a believer in humanism), in the true sense of the term, is to say that one is not a Christian. Perhaps you mean it in a different sense than the historical one which is, "an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters."

Wondergirl · Apr 9, 2019, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

What did He say about the lives of refugees and immigrants, and in particular about illegal immigrants?

That would fun for you to research!

To be truly a humanist (which is to say a believer in humanism), in the true sense of the term, is to say that one is not a Christian. Perhaps you mean it in a different sense than the historical one which is, "an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters."

I didn't capitalize it. From dictionary dot com: a person having a strong interest in or concern for human welfare, values, and dignity.

jlisenbe · Apr 9, 2019, 03:40 PM

That would fun for you to research!

In other words, you don't know of any. And no, I won't do your research for you.

I didn't capitalize it. From dictionary dot com: a person having a strong interest in or concern for human welfare, values, and dignity.

Fair enough.

Wondergirl · Apr 9, 2019, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

In other words, you don't know of any. And no, I won't do your research for you.

In other words, you won't. And yes, I have. That must be my library career kicking in.

jlisenbe · Apr 9, 2019, 05:11 PM

In other words, you won't.

There is no "in other words" to it. I flatly stated I won't do your research for you. And you're awfully quiet for a person who has done her research. I'm pretty sure that He had nothing to say about illegal immigrants crossing the border.

paraclete · Apr 9, 2019, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Awfully quiet for a person who has done her research. I'm pretty sure that He had nothing to say about illegal immigrants crossing the border.

The point is; he had something to say about travellers, there being robbers on the road who would attack travellers and righteous persons who would not offer help, and of course, one who did. I don't think much has changed. But remember Gideon, beset by the Midianites, migrants who trampled his land, he had to do something about it

jlisenbe · Apr 9, 2019, 07:08 PM

The story of the GS is a wonderful instruction aimed at individuals and their personal conduct. Now does it tell us to allow anyone and everyone to cross the border? No, I don't think so.

talaniman · Apr 9, 2019, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

I say arm them ;train them ,and send them back . Let them fight for their own country if they are truely fleeing oppression.If they are coming here for the economic opportunity then they are not eligible for asylum status and there is an orderly procees that legal immigrants follow.

There is a process for that and only through that lawful process can you determine whether their reasons are economic or not. That's just the law. Good luck arming and training kids and women to fight a war against the gangs. Rather a loony idea isn't it? We don't do that here.

talaniman · Apr 9, 2019, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The story of the GS is a wonderful instruction aimed at individuals and their personal conduct. Now does it tell us to allow anyone and everyone to cross the border? No, I don't think so.

I cannot believe you are justifying a wall with an ancient account of a long ago war. Asylum seekers are stealing nothing from us.

waltero · Apr 9, 2019, 11:50 PM

I cannot believe you are justifying a wall with an ancient account of a long ago war.

Yah, Walls are funny that way.

paraclete · Apr 10, 2019, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

I cannot believe you are justifying a wall with an ancient account of a long ago war. Asylum seekers are stealing nothing from us.

It depends on how you define stealing. The problem is; unless the asylum seekers are actually from a war zone, they are economic migrants. So people have to learn to fight back against oppression

jlisenbe · Apr 10, 2019, 06:16 AM

Very few are legitimate asylum seekers. The vast majority just walk across the border illegally.

talaniman · Apr 10, 2019, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

It depends on how you define stealing. The problem is; unless the asylum seekers are actually from a war zone, they are economic migrants. So people have to learn to fight back against oppression

You mean a declared war zone? The history of man is littered with local civil unrest and people running for their lives. Outgunned and beset upon by much greater forces whose regimes are ruthless and while some opposition is mounted it's doomed to fail. You don't have to go back in history, just turn on the news where across the world the same thing is happening, spurring high levels of people fleeing tyranny. Mostly dirt poor and no resources. South America is a mess Clete, so is Africa and the Middle East, and getting worse, should we send guns, or an army? We tried sending money, but they need a lot more so how do we start the resistance to that oppression? Heck we still have oppression in the greatest nation on Earth and it's been ongoing for a while.

We do have a LAWFUL humane process on paper for migrants, if the dufus would abide by it, but obviously he has other ideas, and has a problem with the LAWFUL part so here we are. No Clete whether you have a declared war or just a monster civil conflict matters not. People run from them. Often it's people fighting themselves, not some conquering invaders.

I'll get back to you on that definition of stealing.

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Very few are legitimate asylum seekers. The vast majority just walk across the border illegally.

By law a misdemeanor, and a lawful humane process takes care of that. The emergency is the lawless dufus hollering and screaming about gangs and criminals and refusing to apply the law to meet the challenge.

jlisenbe · Apr 10, 2019, 08:29 AM

Again, the great majority are not asylum seekers. They just cross the border illegally.

talaniman · Apr 10, 2019, 08:40 AM

JL my friend, life is easier if you just deal with it on it's own terms and not let it get to you. It's just the reality of life. All those migrants are but a symptom of a larger problem that hasn't been addressed. My solution is a joint effort between Mexico and the US to address those core issues and that is stabilize those parts of South America that produces those desperate humans fleeing regional conflicts. The same dynamic we have always seen in history that leads to wars and death, and prevalent to this day around the world.