[jlisenbe]

You don't think Trump would agree with that? At an Oval Office meeting with lawmakers, he said he doesn't want immigrants from “$h!thole countries” (Haiti and Africa) and called for more immigrants from places like Norway (blond-haired, blue-eyed Caucasians).

No, I don't think Trump would agree with your statement. As for me, I'm all for immigrants so long as they come here to work and believe in our system of government.

[tomder55]

"Good fences make good neighbours." Robert Frost

[Wondergirl]

"Good fences make good neighbours." Robert Frost

Have you ever read and explicated the entire poem? Frost (the poem's narrator) is against walls and fences:

"Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down...
He will not go behind his father's saying."

Frost's neighbor is stubborn and wants to put up a wall "just because" his father always did.

From https://www.gradesaver.com/the-poetr...ding-wall-1914 :

In the poem itself, Frost creates two distinct characters who have different ideas about what exactly makes a person a good neighbor. The narrator deplores his neighbor’s preoccupation with repairing the wall; he views it as old-fashioned and even archaic. After all, he quips, his apples are not going to invade the property of his neighbor’s pinecones. Moreover, within a land of such of such freedom and discovery, the narrator asks, are such borders necessary to maintain relationships between people? Despite the narrator’s skeptical view of the wall, the neighbor maintains his seemingly “old-fashioned” mentality, responding to each of the narrator’s disgruntled questions and rationalizations with nothing more than the adage: “Good fences make good neighbors.”

[jlisenbe]

Was either neighbor allowing his family members to cross at will and camp out on the other guy's land?

[talaniman]

That's the story of America isn't it? The Euros came and kept coming and I bet if the natives could have enforced their sovereignty they would have. They were outgunned and out numbered eventually, and no doubt those same Euros are making sure the natives don't get it back right?

Heck that's the history of mankind. I get why you want walls and fences. Your tribe just wants to keep what they took from another tribe.

[jlisenbe]

Heck that's the history of mankind. I get why you want walls and fences. Your tribe just wants to keep what they took from another tribe.

It seems to me that most liberals are fine with illegals flowing across the border, but they never seem to have any of them camped out in their own backyard. It's OK so long as it's someone else's problem.

Your tribe

What tribe is that?

[talaniman]

Are you a native? Are you Hispanic? Euro? SLAVE descendent or all the above? Pick one and you tell me.

It seems to me that most liberals are fine with illegals flowing across the border, but they never seem to have any of them camped out in their own backyard. It's OK so long as it's someone else's problem.

How do you know their illegals without due process by law? Seeking asylum doesn't make you illegal. Overstaying your visa does, but nothing said about that. Selective prejudices?

[Wondergirl]

Was either neighbor allowing his family members to cross at will and camp out on the other guy's land?

The poem's narrator wouldn't have cared. The neighbor wanted a fence only because his father had ranted that there had to be one.

In my neighborhood (and suburb) we don't have barriers to keep each other out. If we found a family camped out in our large, tree-shaded back yard, we'd help them figure out more comfortable and safe housing by connecting them with Catholic Charities (an office with social workers is nearby) and area churches.

[jlisenbe]

If we found a family camped out in our large, tree-shaded back yard, we'd help them figure out more comfortable and safe housing by connecting them with Catholic Charities (an office with social workers is nearby) and area churches.

1. How often have you actually done that?
2. Why connect them with Catholic Charities? Why not help them yourself? Why do liberals always want to pass people off to someone else to help?

[talaniman]

What could be wrong with networking for the good? Only a twisted mind would limit others and tell them what they should do to help others for a better outcome.

[jlisenbe]

I didn't tell anyone what to do. You are the one doing that. I just asked a couple of questions.

[talaniman]

All due respect my friend, but your questions came off rather crass especially the last one, which I felt was an insult to the selfless hard working volunteers who are giving of themselves to help those in need. Networking with organizations is just more effective for more people, than just what one can do on their own.

Surely your own good works have shown you that.

[jlisenbe]

I'm all for Catholic Charities. My point was that liberals are constantly wanting to impress everyone else with their charitable inclinations by letting other people take care of the poor. I like to know what a person is doing on an individual basis. At least tell me that you are a volunteer at CC, or support them with financial donations, but don't try to say that driving someone down to an organization amounts to helping the poor. It can be a good thing to do, but it is still not a personal involvement in an individual's life.

It's the same thing I have been saying repeatedly. Charity is not when A helps B with C's money. Charity is when A helps B with A's money.

[Wondergirl]

1. How often have you actually done that?
2. Why connect them with Catholic Charities? Why not help them yourself? Why do liberals always want to pass people off to someone else to help?

1. I've never found people camped out in my back yard.
2. One of my master's level internships was working for nine months at Catholic Charities. I was able to combine counseling families with tutoring and home visits and helping seniors and the disabled to be the best they can be. Catholic Charities offers a very wide spectrum of services, services I couldn't provide on my own. (Lutheran Social Services is another excellent provider of services.) Of course, I continued to be "lightly" involved with my clients after my internship ended.

[jlisenbe]

That's good and wonderful, but an internship is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about going out and engaging with needy people in an unpaid position just for the sake of doing it and being a blessing. That's my complaint with liberal people. It's generally about getting someone else to help the needy. What is needed is for many of us to become personally engaged, not simply professionally engaged.

And I'm not trying to engage in finger-pointing at you personally. I have no idea what you do to help others. It might be considerable, but as I said, I have not seen that to be the case with liberals I have met or communicated with.

[Wondergirl]

That's good and wonderful, but an internship is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about going out and engaging with needy people in an unpaid position just for the sake of doing it and being a blessing. That's my complaint with liberal people. It's generally about getting someone else to help the needy. What is needed is for many of us to become personally engaged, not simply professionally engaged.

And I'm not trying to engage in finger-pointing at you personally. I have no idea what you do to help others. It might be considerable, but as I said, I have not seen that to be the case with liberals I have met or communicated with.

Of course, I'm not going to list all the ways I help people and animals. Oh yeah, I will tell you that, for many years, my husband and I have been feral/stray cat rescuers, eventually adopting them ourselves or finding loving homes for them. My working in public libraries for years allowed me to get to know the community and the residents, and my starting and overseeing a multi-cultural volunteer corps that included court-ordered community-service workers gave the library staff many wonderful opportunities to help others at the library and from home. No one asked first who belonged to what political party; we all just dug in to make lives better.

[jlisenbe]

I commend you. It's a fine thing to help animals. It's good to have a volunteer group to help the library. I'm happy for you. Just saying that when it comes to actually spending their own money and their own free time to literally go out and help needy, poor people, that's a different situation for most people. So before a person starts getting all judgmental about the motives of those of us who want a secure border, I want to know if they are putting their own time and money where their words are with the poor and needy.

[Wondergirl]

the motives of those of us who want a secure border, I want to know if they are putting their own time and money where their words are with the poor and needy.

Yes, I am, beyond your wildest dreams. I know I'm not the only "liberal" (???) doing so. And we can definitely have a secure border without putting up a medieval wall that can be gone under, over, and around.

[Wondergirl]

JL, you musta missed my point. The library staff, as well as its volunteers AND court-ordered community service workers helped the entire community as needed -- and didn't drag politics into it.

[jlisenbe]

JL, you musta missed my point. The library staff, as well as its volunteers AND court-ordered community service workers helped the entire community as needed -- and didn't drag politics into it.

My congratulations! You are, in my experience, very much the exception.

As for the wall, we need to build it for the simple reason that everything else does not work. It will.