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talaniman · Apr 13, 2019, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

No. I am saying that people make decisions and they need to live with their decisions. It is not for you, according to your own profession, to force your belief on other people and compel them to support someone else. You are the one who said we should not do that. Have you changed your mind?

Seem like I was out voted on the fence decades ago, seems you are out voted on abortion rights. Neither of us has given up and I doubt we move to another country.

Wondergirl · Apr 13, 2019, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Having sex outside of marriage is the mistake. I've been plain about that. The man is as guilty as the woman.

And that mistake creates a huge problem. What do you think should be done with all those unloved and unwanted children?

So explain to us how you can kill an unborn child in a God-affirming way. If you do so, don't try to dodge the fact that you are killing the child.

If the baby is already dead or dying, if the OB informs the mother that the baby must be aborted in order to save her life, if a fetus in its earliest stages is not wanted (incest, rape).

I would suggest we go back to a culture of men and women having sex (and babies) within the confines of marriage. Again, a very simple solution that worked in this country for many, many decades.

You're an educator??? Men have gotten women pregnant outside of marriage throughout human history. The population was much smaller and communication wasn't like now, so only family members and locals knew. And let's talk about white plantation owners and black slave women....

In short, too many men haven't respected women, have wanted their needs filled RIGHT NOW, and don't understand the word "no."

They perform more than 300 thousand abortions a year. You are kidding yourself.

Wonder who does all the other millions.

"Between 2010-2014, the Guttmacher Institute estimates that approximately 56 million abortions occurred each year around the globe."

jlisenbe · Apr 13, 2019, 12:45 PM

If the baby is already dead or dying, if the OB informs the mother that the baby must be aborted in order to save her life, if a fetus in its earliest stages is not wanted (incest, rape).

So here is what I do not understand. If a fetus is not wanted, then you say we can kill it and God will affirm that. So what about after the child is born? Does that still hold true? If not, then what is it about the child being early in the pregnancy that makes it OK to kill it because it is not wanted? Think about that. "We don't want you, little kid, so we are going to kill you!"

This argument really stuns me. There are growing numbers of animal shelters that will not put an animal down (kill it) under any circumstances even though, plainly, some of them are not wanted. But that excuse works for human beings? Please explain that.

You're an educator??? Men have gotten women pregnant outside of marriage throughout human history. The population was much smaller and communication wasn't like now, so only family members and locals knew. And let's talk about white plantation owners and black slave women....

That is a distortion of the truth. Out of wedlock births amongst whites was about 3% in 1960. It is now about ten times than number. The increase amongst blacks is equally dramatic. Please don't make such a silly assertion that sexual morality is about the same now as it was decades ago. It is nonsense.

Wondergirl · Apr 13, 2019, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So here is what I do not understand. If a fetus is not wanted, then you say we can kill it and God will affirm that. So what about after the child is born? Does that still hold true? If not, then what is it about the child being early in the pregnancy that makes it OK to kill it because it is not wanted? Think about that. "We don't want you, little kid, so we are going to kill you!"

You'd rather know that child is being starved, beaten, and/or sexually abused? Personally, I'd rather be aborted.

This argument really stuns me. There are growing numbers of animal shelters that will not put an animal down (kill it) under any circumstances even though, plainly, some of them are not wanted. But that excuse works for human beings? Please explain that.

I believe in euthanasia for animals with severe physical problems. The financial resources needed to keep them alive could be saving healthy animals from a bad life.

That is a distortion of the truth. Out of wedlock births amongst whites was about 3% in 1960. It is now about ten times than number. The increase amongst blacks is equally dramatic. Please don't make such a silly assertion that sexual morality is about the same now as it was decades ago. It is nonsense.

Weren't you around in the '60s? Don't you know how women helped each other end unwanted pregnancies, of which there were surprisingly many, especially among teen girls? Of course, there are no stats, and they didn't tell the menfolk. And that's been true throughout history.

jlisenbe · Apr 13, 2019, 01:32 PM

You'd rather know that child is being starved, beaten, and/or sexually abused? Personally, I'd rather be aborted.

So if a child is being beaten, starved, or sexually abused, is it OK to kill the child now? You see, that's what my question to you is. Why is it OK to kill the child before birth but not afterwards? Why do you make that distinction?

waltero · Apr 13, 2019, 02:22 PM

Who better to ask then the babies who survived abortions, or are they just disposable body parts?

Wondergirl · Apr 13, 2019, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So if a child is being beaten, starved, or sexually abused, is it OK to kill the child now? You see, that's what my question to you is. Why is it OK to kill the child before birth but not afterwards? Why do you make that distinction?

Promise me you'll jump in to save that child from further abuse. Foster it? Or maybe we taxpayers can each chip in a few shekels to help that child!

talaniman · Apr 13, 2019, 02:24 PM

For many CENTURIES woman never told a soul except trusted ones they had an abortion. Now that we know because they tell. I take it you liked blissful ignorance better. LOL, married women have abortions and end pregnancies, but no one can screw with them, just the poor women, and especially unmarried poor women.

So if a child is being beaten, starved, or sexually abused, is it OK to kill the child now? You see, that's what my question to you is. Why is it OK to kill the child before birth but not afterwards? Why do you make that distinction?

That's not a very thoughtfully formed question and it's the LAW/government that makes the distinction that counts.

jlisenbe · Apr 13, 2019, 03:00 PM

Promise me you'll jump in to save that child from further abuse. Foster it? Or maybe we taxpayers can each chip in a few shekels to help that child!

You are avoiding the question. As for the taxpayers, Tal has said that you cannot force others to follow your beliefs.

That's not a very thoughtfully formed question and it's the LAW/government that makes the distinction that counts.

It's a very well thought out question. I noticed you had no answer to it either.

Guys, maybe this is just words to you, but I will never understand how any adult, especially one who is a confessing Christian, can be so tolerant of the destruction of human life. We are millions and millions and millions of deaths of innocent people ahead of the Nazis. That distresses me. The most innocent and defenseless are sacrificed because they are too much of a bother to us.

talaniman · Apr 13, 2019, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You are avoiding the question. As for the taxpayers, Tal has said that you cannot force others to follow your beliefs.

You must obey the law dude, we all do right?

It's a very well thought out question. I noticed you had no answer to it either.

I did answer your question... "
it's the LAW/government that makes the distinction that counts.".

Guys, maybe this is just words to you, but I will never understand how any adult, especially one who is a confessing Christian, can be so tolerant of the destruction of human life. We are millions and millions and millions of deaths of innocent people ahead of the Nazis. That distresses me. The most innocent and defenseless are sacrificed because they are too much of a bother to us.

There is no US in decisions between an individual and their creator. Should there be?

Wondergirl · Apr 13, 2019, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You are avoiding the question. As for the taxpayers, Tal has said that you cannot force others to follow your beliefs.

JL 3:2,3 -- Yea, I say unto thee, it is worthy of condemnation to abort a fetus during the first trimester, yet it is permitted to close thine ears to the cries of hungry, beaten, and abused babes. Woe to those who legally coerce their countrymen to pay taxes to care for those unfortunates.

jlisenbe · Apr 13, 2019, 06:33 PM

JL 3:2,3 -- Yea, I say unto thee, it is worthy of condemnation to abort a fetus during the first trimester, yet it is permitted to close thine ears to the cries of hungry, beaten, and abused babes. Woe to those who legally coerce their countrymen to pay taxes to care for those unfortunates.

So you have no answer. Sad.

Wondergirl · Apr 13, 2019, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So you have no answer. Sad.

I'm trying to be like you. (What was the question?) Psssst, you don't answer mine. *grump*

jlisenbe · Apr 13, 2019, 07:00 PM

One excuse is about as good as another.

paraclete · Apr 13, 2019, 08:10 PM

What is your excuse

jlisenbe · Apr 13, 2019, 09:45 PM

Don't need one. I've answered her questions.

paraclete · Apr 14, 2019, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Don't need one. I've answered her questions.

Well you missed the import of my question

waltero · Apr 14, 2019, 12:13 PM

It's obvious, abortion is wrong. Nothing about it feels good. Those who support abortions feel the need to Justify...work to deceive themselves (and others) into believing that there is nothing wrong. Legalizing Abortion doesn't make it right.

But, But who's going to provide for the unwanted children...What the Heck are you going on about? That has absolutely nothing to do with it!!! Who is it that provided for the unwanted (Bastards...in fact what your referring too) before abortions became legal? Lets just Eliminate the little B*******, Is that the way you feel (its what your saying)? Why do you suppose they use to print "bastard" on Birth certificates?

Abortion is very far down the list of services they provide to low-income women. Their main services are prevention of pregnancy and women's health.

Is that why thousands of Teenage girls are treating abortions as form of contraceptive?

Do you understand that motives for profit may be keeping it alive.

talaniman · Apr 15, 2019, 08:58 AM

Maybe it's wrong to you or me, but to others it's not. Those thousands of teens you say use abortions as a contraceptive is a wild asertion that you should specify. Does the over the counter without a prescription day after pills countas abortions? To me it does not. What of the rise in teen suicides?

waltero · Apr 15, 2019, 10:47 AM

Maybe it's wrong to you or me, but to others it's not.

Forty Years ago there were no "others".

thousands of Teenage girls are treating abortions as form of contraceptive

Let me rephrase that: recurring abortions as form of contraceptive

What is the governing force behind abortion?
Money, More Money, lies, deceit etc.

Having a (first time) abortion isn't like going to the Dentist. Before, during and after there are going to be some strong emotions...feel good moment? It's not so much the abortion itself..."Declaring" abortion as right is wrong.