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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #221

    Mar 1, 2019, 07:22 AM
    The left never changes ... always blame America first
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,325, Reputation: 10855
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    #222

    Mar 1, 2019, 11:34 AM
    Big difference between blaming and acknowledging accountability. Hey all the empires of man have the same blood of the vanquished foe on their hands. Some more than others maybe, but same behavior, with very similar outcomes... devastation and death that can last a very long time.

    "You break it, you own it", as Colin Powell once said. Is the right in such denial?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #223

    Mar 2, 2019, 05:25 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Big difference between blaming and acknowledging accountability. Hey all the empires of man have the same blood of the vanquished foe on their hands. Some more than others maybe, but same behavior, with very similar outcomes... devastation and death that can last a very long time.

    "You break it, you own it", as Colin Powell once said. Is the right in such denial?
    So what is it you want them to own? Afghanistan, it was broken before you came, Iraq, a basket case which you made worse? Libya, yes Obama should own that one and go and fix it with his peace prize in his pocket. Maybe the world is better off now with a little less islamic militancy after the guts have been kicked out of the Muslim Brotherhood, out of Al Qaeda, out of ISIS, but I wonder how much of it was a crisis of your own making, and you are doing it again in Venezeula
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,020, Reputation: 157
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    #224

    Mar 3, 2019, 06:20 AM
    I generally think we would do better if we would mind our own business more frequently. Still, after 9/11 we had to do something. Did we do the right something? In large measure yes, but I do understand that people can have other opinions about it.

    We are still our own worst enemy. 22 tril in debt (half of it under the Obama admin), the insane idea that wind and solar can supply our energy needs, the thinking that increased government spending will grow the economy, and a growing belief that taxing the rich can solve all our problems will do us in faster than any foreign enemy.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #225

    Mar 3, 2019, 01:58 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I generally think we would do better if we would mind our own business more frequently. Still, after 9/11 we had to do something. Did we do the right something? In large measure yes, but I do understand that people can have other opinions about it.

    We are still our own worst enemy. 22 tril in debt (half of it under the Obama admin), the insane idea that wind and solar can supply our energy needs, the thinking that increased government spending will grow the economy, and a growing belief that taxing the rich can solve all our problems will do us in faster than any foreign enemy.
    Yes you had to do something but you lashed out on al qaeda and go rid of their bases but you didn't identify your true enemy and became a lackey of Saudi and Israeli aggression and pursuing regime change in the ME has you embroilled in ongoing tribal wars
    waltero's Avatar
    waltero Posts: 620, Reputation: 5
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    #226

    Mar 4, 2019, 03:52 PM
    If anybody is going to take advantage of Venezuela it will be the United States, Not China.
    The US Placed Saddam in power, who else can pull him from power.

    I agree, the US lost sight of the Ball. We are Screww-uuu-uuwwdd (and so are you ;-P)!

    ENJOY.

    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,020, Reputation: 157
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    #227

    Mar 4, 2019, 04:32 PM
    We don't need to worry about foreign powers. Our own lack of discipline (22 tril in debt) is our greatest enemy.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #228

    Mar 5, 2019, 03:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by waltero View Post
    If anybody is going to take advantage of Venezuela it will be the United States, Not China.
    The US Placed Saddam in power, who else can pull him from power.

    I agree, the US lost sight of the Ball. We are Screww-uuu-uuwwdd (and so are you ;-P)!

    ENJOY.

    Yes indeed that is what the US excels at taking advantage and creating situations of disadvantage
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,020, Reputation: 157
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    #229

    Mar 5, 2019, 04:27 PM
    Yes indeed that is what the US excels at taking advantage and creating situations of disadvantage
    What a statement. Saved the world in World Wars 1 and 2. Rebuilt the world with the Marshall plan. Single-handedly props up the United Nations. Gives more to foreign aid than probably the next 10 nations combined. Yeah, we sure take advantage of people.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #230

    Mar 6, 2019, 04:32 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    What a statement. Saved the world in World Wars 1 and 2. Rebuilt the world with the Marshall plan. Single-handedly props up the United Nations. Gives more to foreign aid than probably the next 10 nations combined. Yeah, we sure take advantage of people.
    You won world war 1, what a stretch, you won world war 2, with out Russia kicking Hitlers but it would have taken longer and maybe you could have unleashed mass murder in Europe since your saturation bombing couldn't get the job done. Don't think propping up the UN is doing us any favours. Tied foreign aid isn't aid it is keeping jobs in the US disquised as aid, if any of it actually gets out of the US. Remember aid to Haiti? You need to get a new song because that one is getting very tired
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,020, Reputation: 157
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    #231

    Mar 6, 2019, 05:12 AM
    When I read your comments, I am reminded of the old saying which goes, "No good deed goes unpunished." I'm not saying we have sprouted angel wings, but anytime a natural disaster occurs anywhere in the world, both public and private funds are sent pouring out of the U.S. Most of our foreign aid is tied to nothing. And yeah, if the U.S. had not entered WW 1, the Germans would have won.
    waltero's Avatar
    waltero Posts: 620, Reputation: 5
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    #232

    Mar 6, 2019, 09:25 AM
    I'm Not sure about the First World War.
    As Far as the Second World War; Only until America Entered WWII was it decided.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,020, Reputation: 157
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    #233

    Mar 6, 2019, 10:30 AM
    I'm Not sure about the First World War.
    As Far as the Second World War; Only until America Entered WWII was it decided
    Fair enough statement.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #234

    Mar 6, 2019, 02:58 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    When I read your comments, I am reminded of the old saying which goes, "No good deed goes unpunished." I'm not saying we have sprouted angel wings, but anytime a natural disaster occurs anywhere in the world, both public and private funds are sent pouring out of the U.S. Most of our foreign aid is tied to nothing. And yeah, if the U.S. had not entered WW 1, the Germans would have won.
    No the germans would not have won Russia denied them vital oil supplies, it would just have taken longer and Europe would have been conquered by Russia I grant your achievement in the Pacific which might have been quicker if you were not preoccupied with Hitler
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #235

    Mar 6, 2019, 03:02 PM
    I'm as America first as you can get . The war in Europe was won by Russia with our assistance . The Battle of Stalingrad was the deciding factor in the war ;not the Normandy Invasion on D Day. The real deciding factor was the Russian T 34 tank . The Soviets suffered 20x the number of casualties as the US ;and we "let them take Berlin. " which cost them 30,000 casualties . Actually the deciding battle was Russia v Japan at
    Khalkhyn Gol where the greatest General in the war ,General
    Georgi Zhukov defeated the Japanese (which caused the Japanese to look South for an empire eventually taking on the US) . He also led the defense of Moscow and Leningrad
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,020, Reputation: 157
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    #236

    Mar 6, 2019, 07:11 PM
    If not for the United States, Germany would have won the Battle of the Atlantic and taken the Brits out of the war. That would have allowed the Germans to point everything at the Soviets.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #237

    Mar 6, 2019, 08:08 PM
    80 % of the German forces were deployed in Russia . Bigger than the Battle of the Atlantic was the Lend Lease program that helped the Russians survive the early onslaught. General Zukov could very well be the most under rated General in history . He totally annihilated the Japanese at
    Khalkhyn Gol and then came West to defeat the Germans The Russian counter offensive began in the winter of 1941 ;a year before we entered the war . Zukov executed a double envelopment of the Germans . By D day the Germans had been pushed out of Russia and were being pushed out of Eastern Europe.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #238

    Mar 6, 2019, 09:46 PM
    Never mind, it is always johnny~come~lately who claims victory. The US was lucky not to be annihilated at Normandy, Had Hitler committed the panzer reserves the situation may have been very different and if the Germans had not have made the mistake of invading Russia it is doubtful a successful invasion could have been mounted
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #239

    Mar 7, 2019, 01:45 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    General Zukov could very well be the most under rated General in history .

    Hitler was the best general the Allies had.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,020, Reputation: 157
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    #240

    Mar 7, 2019, 03:44 AM
    Hitler was the best general the Allies had.
    Very true.

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