[tomder55]

I am encouraged . The Dobbs case that overturned Roe appears to be working as intended . Alabama has a law that the state Supreme Court misinterpreted to mean that IVF test tube frozen embryos are babies. There was confusion after the ruling . It caused a pause in IVF services in the state.

The good news is that Dobbs gives the legislature back the power to correct it . It appears that is what will happen.

Lawmakers file bills to address Alabama Supreme Court's IVF ruling (alreporter.com)

Nikki moves past DeSantis . That puts a target on her back by Trump - Page 3 (askmehelpdesk.com)


This is where the Repubs always shoots themselves in the foot . They are being pigeonholed into the appearance of being nut jobs . The Alabama Supreme Court went by the words of the law to interpret it to mean that a frozen embryo is a human life. 40-60 % of embryos do not get implanted naturally. They cannot possibly become a human until implantation or when some scientist comes up with a way to artificially grow them outside of the womb. But that is a science fiction discussion for another day.

Knowing this most states have not declared embryos to be humans . They are instead given "special respect" .

Embryos are not only used in freezing for later implanting . They are also used in stem cell medical use. Defining them as a person would logically end that also.

Alabama as I mentioned is taking steps to correct the language of the law.

But now the issue is going to be exploited

This is one of many election year gotchas .

Illinois Senator Tammy Duckworth introduced a bill that she is asking for unanimous consent.

New Duckworth, Murray, Wild Bill Would Protect Right to Access IVF, Other Assisted Reproductive Technology for Every American | U.S. Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois (senate.gov)

Now some of the Senators may agree with the Alabama SC decision. Others may see the issue as I do as matter that SCOTUS correctly returned to the states . They will vote against . The bill will fail.

But it will then give the Dems a talking point into the election that the Repubs are out of touch religious extremist .

IVF Senate law: Republicans say they really, really want to protect IVF—but not enough to let this bill pass. (slate.com)

Over in the House Rep Nancy Mace (South Carolina) is introducing similar resolutions supporting "fertility care " . She will also introduce a bill supporting IVF

Nancy Mace pitches bill with nonbinding IVF protections - Live Updates - POLITICO

Now the Repubs ;again on the defensive ,will be forced to go on record to reject a position that they have not taken

Republicans Are Lying About Supporting IVF | The New Republic

Republicans start to back off controversial Alabama IVF ruling | National | fairfieldsuntimes.com

[jlisenbe]

Why is an embryo not human?

[tomder55]

I probably a related event ;there was an explosion outside the office of Alabama AG Steve Marshall.

Explosive detonated outside Alabama attorney general's office on Saturday - ABC News (go.com)

[tomder55]

Why is an embryo not human?

If it comes down to faith ,either you believe it or not. But that is not the science . 40-60% of fertilized human eggs fail to implant . I do not believe that God intends for half of all babies to die before there is a pregnancy .In this my belief is different than the stated position of my church.

For every fertilized egg artificially implanted there are many more that are produced in a lab that are never used for IVF . Wanted embryos can be frozen of course . Over time some of them are no longer viable.

What exactly should be done with them ? The alternative is to not have the procedure legal at all. Unwanted embryos need to either be destroyed or put to other productive use like research.


In my view Alabama did the right thing to clarify the difference between killing a baby and the destruction of IVF embryos .

Republican Alabama governor signs IVF protections into law | Reuters

[tomder55]

Just a quick update for those who thought the Dobbs decision was the death knell to abortion in the US .

There were more than a million baby snuffings in 2023 in the US despite the Dobbs decision. That is a 10% INCREASE in the number since 2020.

Many of them were done through mail order chemical murder with the use of mifepristone aka the 'abortion pill'.

FDA finalizes rule change allowing mail-order abortion pills | PBS NewsHour

The national availability of this death drug will be the next challenge for SCOTUS .

There are a pair of cases SCOTUS agreed to hear ;and the timing is perfect for guaranteeing that the abortion issue will be front and center in the fall campaign.

Food and Drug Administration v. Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine - SCOTUSblog

Danco Laboratories, L.L.C. v. Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine - SCOTUSblog


SCOTUS will hear arguments this summer .Expect the antics outside the court to be the same zoo atmosphere that the Dobbs hearings were

I have no doubt that Schmuck Shumer's prediction of a whirlwind being released will have been prophetic. During those hearings Kavanaugh was stalked by an assassin.

Chuck Schumer Threatens Supreme Court Justices Gorsuch & Kavanaugh (youtube.com)

FBI says man accused of attempting to kill Brett Kavanaugh said he was ‘shooting for 3’ justices | CNN Politics

[jlisenbe]

Schumer's approach is basically this. If you will not support the killing of unborn children, then we will kill you. It is breath-taking that a U.S. senator is allowed to issue such a threat. All of the whiners who protested on this site so much about the Jan. 6 riot have been strangely, and yet predictably, silent on this issue. Shame.

[tomder55]

Based on the oral arguments I predict the government is going to win it's case to nationally distribute the mifepristone murder pill to pharmacies regardless of ,and despite state abortion laws.

SCOTUS will decide that the plaintiffs ;Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine, were not able to prove "standing ". They could not identify a physician that was harmed by the decision.

The conservatives in the court have used the issue of standing to squash cases recently .So I guess that is a fair way to make a non-decision.

My best guess is that the real issue is deference to the administrative state. As I suggested here ;this is one of the main reasons the Leviathan administrative state has been able to grow virtually unchecked.
Quick hits (askmehelpdesk.com)

The court is probably reluctant to take on FDA decisions about which drug should be allowed .........even if the drug's sole reason is baby killing.

[jlisenbe]

The cause of death marches on. These issues are never isolated. The disregard of human life is a natural outgrowth of our growing rejection of the authority of God. We shake our fists at Him and proclaim that we will do as we please, forgetting that His fist is a great deal more powerful than ours.

[Wondergirl]

God gave us free will.

And what will happen to all those unwanted babies that will get born?

[jlisenbe]

We could just kill them. After all, according to what certainly seems to be your logic, if a child is unwanted, either pre or post birth, then killing the child is the best solution. Correct???

It is true that God gave us free will. It is equally true that God will hold us accountable for what we do with our free will.

[Wondergirl]

I did not state any "logic". I asked you a question. You refused to answer it because you have no clue.

I read about how you use your free will and then shudder.

[jlisenbe]

You have asked a question concerning what to do with babies that are born to mothers. Throughout all of history, the mother, and usually the father, raise the child, so I don't see how you consider that to be so remarkable. Any mother too sorry to raise her own child should put the child up for adoption. The demand for adopted children right now is enormous.

You are clearly using the "unwanted child" approach as a justification for continuing to kill unborn children in abortion. It is your logic, though I can see why you would want to deny that.

[Wondergirl]

I asked YOU a question. And guess how many babies are languishing, waiting to be adopted. Heck, let's add hundreds more to that number. The demand right now is NOT enormous.

You are trying desperately to find fault with me by a faulty reading of my mind. You are very incorrect. Stop it!

[jlisenbe]

And I answered your question above.

Sorry, but you simply don't know what you're talking about concerning adoption.

But that is not actually true. Adopting a baby or toddler is much more difficult than it was a few decades ago. Of the nearly 4 million American children who are born each year, only about 18,000 are voluntarily relinquished for adoption. Though the statistics are unreliable, some estimates suggest that dozens of couples are now waiting to adopt each available baby. Since the mid-1970s—the end of the so-called baby-scoop era, when large numbers of unmarried women placed their children for adoption—the percentage of never-married women who relinquish their infants has declined from nearly 9 percent to less than 1 percent.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...s-hard/620258/



As to your position on abortion, I don't need to read your mind. I only need to read your posts. "The 'mistake' is a child whom you refuse to allow to be aborted once the woman realizes she's pregnant," You keep forgetting about the very capable search feature on this site. And that's not to mention your previously stated opinion that a baby is not a living soul until it takes its first breath, a silly idea since you don't even believe the account you are depending on in Genesis 2 even happened, thus meaning you are making a fact appeal to a work of fiction, a truly novice mistake. Would you like for me to link that for you as well?

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showth...10#post3833210

But if you've changed your mind the past few years, then please feel free to outline your views on abortion. I'd love to read about them.

[Wondergirl]

I'm against abortion. As a professional counselor, I have done everything possible to keep my clients secure and happy in their marriages and relationships so that abortion doesn't become an issue.

[jlisenbe]

I'm against abortion

Why are you against abortion?

If you are against abortion, then why did you characterize my opposition to abortion as a "mistake"?

[Wondergirl]

Why are you against abortion?

Why is there a fetus?

[jlisenbe]

Answering a question with a question. Evasion, your name is Wondergirl.

But I am happy to show you how it is done. There is a fetus because the woman conceived and that independent human life is growing under its own genetic direction.

Now, answer the question please. Why are you against abortion?

[Wondergirl]

There is a fetus because the woman conceived and that independent human life is growing under its own genetic direction.

How did the woman conceive? Was she raped? Is she happily married - or not? Did she give consent to intercourse? How old is she? Questions to ask....

[jlisenbe]

Answer my question first. Why are you against abortion?