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Remember Trump's famous pledge to have Mexico pay for the border wall? Today, the orange-headed moron threatened to shut down the government unless the American taxpayer paid for the wall.
A bad week for Trump - he has added felony charges to his lies. The time is not far off when he will be meeting Bubba in a lock-up somewhere.
The wall was a bridge too far
Mexico is still laughing at the big dufus liar, and if repubs haven't built his wall, then the dems sure ain't. I think he is just changing the subject given the law is on his fat orange butt.
No, it is a key piece of his platform and ego dictates he gets what he wants so the stand off, the tantrum, give me what I want
So why hasn't he been negotiating with Mexico about this wall he promised and says is so important?
The Mexicans have told him they will not pay for it. The problem is an American problem, not a Mexican problem, besides it is being built in the wrong place, it should be built on the Mexican southern border
Maybe Mexico can make the dufus pay for it! He might go for it if they name it after him.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
https://www.arcamax.com/newspics/168/16843/1684343.gif
Big beautiful wall
We used to talk about tarriff barriers as walls, maybe Trump could trade his tarriff barriers for a frontier wall
Oh Clete, if Mexico said NO! What makes you think China, Canada, France, Russia, or Iran will agree to the Dufus's nonsense? Even the Saudi's aren't that crazy! Everybody but the loonies think the wall is a DUMB idea and a waste of money.
No, the leftists think it is waste of money because they want more immigrants. I don't get it, what is the point of having poor immigrants. We encourage immigration by people with money and skills.
Whether others agree or not isn't the point, a sovereign nation can do what it wants but it only limits itself when you fight with others. Trump's tariffs are a waste of money, and not the money of those countries, but American money belonging to the American people, now I don't care, you can shoot yourselves in the foot if you want too, but a wall is infrastructure. Right now you border guards and troops on the border because the poor people are trying to get in. I hear in some places there is not even a visual barrier but if you didn't feed them and house them when they get there, there would be less incentive to come
Hello All
Tax payers need to pay for a filter on that idiot mouth and twitter account.
Hey I'll even start by donating $50 to start the fund.
I mean he must be an idiot not to know we were all immigrants from some country 100's of years ago.
FYI = My family mostly from England and that area though moved to New Zealand 80-120 years ago.
If Mexico does pay for it they should call it " Pared idiota " or " El muro de los idiotas "
Those who want a wall should do a GoFundMe drive . As far as the so called shutdown ;well if Trump was like the emperor he will inconvenience tourist unnecessarily by shutting down monuments that people want to see . The truth is that more than 85 % of the government is self funded in the budget and very little of it is discretionary spending that would negatively affect the people. I for one encourage lawmakers to take as long as they want . When they are not in DC they aren't doing mischief or costing us.
Well is there a shut down or not
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
The poorest immigrants are the best. The Irish, among the most destitute, produced generations of the best citizens in every field up to the President of the United States. The Italians, Germans, Hispanics, Greeks, etc have accomplished similarly. Keep sending us those "wretched masses, yearning to breathe free".
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Assuming your facts are accurate and well-sourced, you've made some excellent points.
Yes they have an incentive to succeed, given they have opportunity, but it they are just coming to fulfil the role that others won't step up too, are you helping them or just enslaving themQuote:
Originally Posted by Athos
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Helping them!
The newly-arrived poor immigrants take the jobs nobody else wants which help them support a family, which could not be done in the old country. Their children do a little better, and their children still better........ That's how it works. It's an old story. Probably most of the people posting here know that story well.
Most of the immigrants come here poor and work their way up, no matter where they came from or why. It's always been that way. Even the dufus did the same thing the Mexicans are doing except they have been doing it before the euros found the place. That's what's made America unique in the world Clete, a history of poor immigrants working hard to build a great nation. For all the chaos it still is the winning formula.
The President has now made an offer that includes some things Democrats have wanted in exchange for funding a wall or barrier on some parts of the border. Democrats ;the open border party say it’s a non-starter. Ok. What’s their counteroffer? Or will they simply not make one proving my point that they want open borders and nothing else ?
The choices they have been given were things taken away by Trump. Now he's dangling them in front of their faces, a big tease? And no, Democrats don't want open borders!Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
No, they will leave them open so long as it serves their purpose. It has been months since Trump moved on DACA and there has been nothing to solve that problem. The demonrats aren't interested anymore, no political capital in it for the moment, and they don't want a Trump solutionQuote:
Democrats don't want open borders!
What you have now is the big shutdown, or the really, really big shutup.
Someone doesn't want Trump to get kudos from the wall, good idea or bad idea, politically noone is going to salute it. This is the not made here syndrome.
He is offering to undo the stuff he has done for a border wall. This is the guy who walked away from a grand deal last year. And walked away from a BI_PARTISAN deal to avoid a shutdown in the first place, after the right wing loonies blasted him for being soft.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
The dems proposals are very simple Tom, open government and secure the borders, and keep talking. Pelosi and the dems were elected just like the dufus was, so no need to spread the political charged open borders lie, on top of the dufus grand lie that a wall solves the problem of gangs and drugs, when the drugs come through the points of entry with legit commerce.
This is a repub senate that filibustered keeping sanctions on the Vlad money machine. This is a senate that refuses to open government until the dufus is happy. Forget the open borders slander, the real question is who runs the senate, MITCH or DUFUS? Never mind, it's obvious The dufus runs the senate in his own feckless style.
That's not how it's laid out in the constitution, only in the minds of loony dufus sycophants in the repub house and senate. America cleaned out the house, guess what's NEXT? Oh just to mention the right wing loonies still ain't happy with the dufus idea. No wall, no government is their position.
That's not how it's laid out in the constitution either.
tal that is not a proposal .Guess we wait until the heat gets to the Dems. Many of them represent districts that voted for Trump specifically because of his position on border sercurity . McConnell brokered Trumps latest proposal along with Pence and Kushner. The Senate is ready to vote on a bill the President will sign. The onerous and the shutdown now resides in the open border Dems' court .
I bet they are if you call that a proposal.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
The dems need to respond to Trump's offer. You give a little, I give a little. It's called negotiating. I think the dems are grandstanding for political purposes and will continue to do so as long as they see it as a winning hand. Could very well be true for Trump as well.
Gratifying that you acknowledge the possibility that both sides are playing to their bases. I agree that dems should respond to the offer on the table, but I would have a huge problem with making the lives of real people, specifically DACA, and government workers a leverage point. His offer also reflects previous deals he has REJECTED more than once. Essentially permanent wall funding for temporary DACA relief (3 years) seems a non starter, even though Slick Mitch is reportedly to add "sweeteners" to the proposal. I heard he plans to vote on the house proposals they have passed, and essentially the same ones the senate has passed by voice vote last December.
I guess we will see in the coming days. Not to change the subject but today is Martin Luther King Day and I would be remiss not to acknowledge the birthday of such a great American civil rights activist.
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This isn't a negotiation, it is a demand. As I recall the Demonrats attempted to give Trump half the money before the shutdown and he refused so there is no give in Trump. He isn't prepared to take one dollar less because the lives of those affected by the shutdown don't matter to him. He doesn't see them as voters or at least not his voters. Trump is grandstanding and the Demonrats know they have the House and therefore the veto on funding Anything Trump offers requires funding so he isn't giving anythingQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
He hasn't moved on funding for the wall, but he has moved on the DACA situation. The dems have not offered half the money. Their stand is they will not give more than one dollar. The only proposal I recall from the dems is a vague offer to increase spending for the border, but not for a wall. Both sides are grandstanding. It is the nature of politics.
Release the hostages!!! There are enough dem, and repub bills to do that and open the government and stop good people from suffering. Dump the dufus and his feckless sycophants!
Fund the wall and it shall happen.
"And if you continue to refuse to fund the wall, you'll be really, really sorry, sorrier than you are now!"Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You have that in quotes, but I can't find anywhere Trump said that. Are you saying that he did?Quote:
"And if you continue to refuse to fund the wall, you'll be really, really sorry, sorrier than you are now!"
In your view, what would a reasonable compromise be in this situation, Wondergirl?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Compromise? The only compromise is to keep the invaders out and not use military force to do so.
Increased numbers of well-trained immigration agents plus clean, well-run housing and empathetic support services for the refugees and immigrants who have passed through the initial phases of the visa process.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You haven't been listening. What he did say was pretty much that.Quote:
You have that in quotes, but I can't find anywhere Trump said that. Are you saying that he did?
He did say, "Walls work, whether we like it or not. They work better than anything.” He apparently hasn't studied what happened with Hadrian's Wall or the Great Wall of China or the Berlin Wall or the Walls of Troy or the Walls of Babylon.
OK. That's not a compromise, it's dictating terms. I would think the dems could offer 3 bil for the wall rather than 5, and ask for concessions for DACA and TPS.Quote:
Increased numbers of well-trained immigration agents plus clean, well-run housing and empathetic support services for the refugees and immigrants who have passed through the initial phases of the visa process.
Why is it that libs are always asking for "clean, well-run housing...support", paid for with someone else's money, or even worse with borrowed money?
I'm negotiating. That's my card on the table to counter tRump's.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Why is tRump going to use our money, especially MY tax money that I've/we've paid, so he can fund a wall I/we don't want? Let him use his own money.Quote:
Why is it that libs are always asking for "clean, well-run housing...support", paid for with someone else's money, or even worse with borrowed money?
Fair enough, but what would you propose as a genuine compromise?Quote:
I'm negotiating. That's my card on the table to counter tRump's.
Good reply. I think the difference is in giving money to individuals versus spending money on a project that will benefit us all.Quote:
Why is tRump going to use our money, especially MY tax money that I've/we've paid, so he can fund a wall I/we don't want? Let him use his own money.
We're not at the compromise stage yet. Trump stated his goal. I stated mine. Does he want to discuss, or will he storm out of the room, saying "Bye, bye!"Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
How will a wall benefit me? I have no problem with refugees and immigrants eventually becoming citizens, probably willing to do all those low-paying jobs (custodial work, harvesting crops, reroofing buildings, working in construction and rebuilding infrastructure, becoming CNAs) that our privileged white adult children and grandchildren won't do.Quote:
Good reply. I think the difference is in giving money to individuals versus spending money on a project that will benefit us all.
You're dithering.Quote:
We're not at the compromise stage yet. Trump stated his goal. I stated mine. Does he want to discuss, or will he storm out of the room, saying "Bye, bye!"
Illegals consume billions upon billions of dollars in tax money every year. That's how it should concern you.Quote:
How will a wall benefit me?
Funny how liberals can never stray far away from race.Quote:
privileged white adult children
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