[450donn]

How many of these saps are turning in a car that they can afford to buy something that they cannot afford to pay for? Why do we have to say thanks to the auto workers for putting that dunderhead in office? This is simply another tax payers funded thanks to the auto workers for their votes in November. Wasn't the 500 million buyout enough already?

[andrewc24301]

Well, for me, the only logical way to make this work, would be if I had just purchased a brand new gas guzzler, with many years still left to pay on it. Then I could trade it in for a more fuel effient vehicle if I wanted to, and take advantage of the tax credit.

But I maintain it's still better for my "personal economy" to stick with my clunker.

But to be fair, the government is not "making" people trade in cars. It's still optional.

What I see as the debatable point is it's another example of billions or dollars being thrown around.

WE ALL will be penalized for this spending, be it good spending or bad. The country is long out of money, and we are on borrowed time. Even if Obama doesn't raise ANY taxes, rest assured, if this massive government spending doesn't slow down, inflation will have our asses, and we may not be paying a $3 tax on a $1 loaf of bread, but we will be paying $5.50 for the loaf anyway due to inflation.

[excon]

What I see as the debatable point is it's another example of billions or dollars being thrown around.

Hello a:

This isn't ANOTHER billion or so. It's the SAME billion or so that was already authorized in the stimulus. And, if they're going to throw it around, throwing at THIS program, which sells cars, reduces our need for foreign oil, reduces pollution, and employs people, ain't a bad place to throw it.

It needs to be reemphasized that the government is spending this money to PREVENT The Great Depression II. If you didn't think he government should have stimulated the economy, then you're not going to like this program no matter what.

But, if you're a believer in the notion that the government needed to spend because NOBODY else was, then this is a GOOD program.

excon

[Wondergirl]

there are videos on youtube to turn your vehicle into a clunket to get the money

I like that, "clunket" -- sort of like a "clunkette"?

[N0help4u]

:( I can't be perfect ALL the time can I?

[andrewc24301]

Well ex,

I hope you are correct, because Obama is really playing his cards now. If this money we spend doesn't work, then we will still be left with a troubled economy and high inflation to boot.

I'm confident, this presidential term will end one of two ways, on a healthy road to recovery, or a second depression.

I don't think there will be any middle ground, there is too much at stake.

Now if you REALLY want to save at the pump- get a Scooter. I had one once, loved it. Drove it all over the place. Got 100 MPG on it.

Disadvantage is, you can't drive it on the interstate.

I only sold it because my family would fuss and carry on when ever I would go for one of my long country rides on it.

But it was so nice, put three dollars worth of gas in it, and ride it all day.

You can get one for about $1,000 brand new. If I had to drive my own vehicle to and from work, I'd be riding one of these.

[excon]

Now if you REALLY want to save at the pump- get a Scooter. I had one once, loved it. Drove it all over the place. Got 100 MPG on it.

Hello again, andrew:

Had me an Allstate Super Cruisair when I was 14. Cost me $300 back then. Crashed it and broke my arm.

excon

[tomder55]

Ex I thought you had some business savvy.

Here you have dealers filling their inventories;putting major $$ down on advertising ,trading for cars they normally would not touch ,wrecking them instead of resale,fronting the $4500 to the customer from their own pockets,sometimes matching the gvt. Program with additional incentives... all on the promise that the gvt. Would reimburse $4500 on a timely basis (you do understand cash flow right ?).

Now a couple of weeks into the program most have not seen any money from the gvt. And have no reasonable expectation that they will see it any time soon. The gvt. Instead needs more emergency funding for the program with a refusal to release any adequate accounting the billion already in the kitty.

As I have already mentioned elsewhere this program is hammer time for the used car ,and parts business . Lets say you have people like Andrew and Saph who can't afford to get in the program or have done the calculations and decided to keep their clunkers on the road. What do they do for parts when most of that business is recycling scrap ? This plan destroys one sector of the economy to give a theoretical temporary boost to another .This plan would make Frederic Bastiat proud.

And yes, it is at best temporary. Recall when the car companies did the employee discount incentive.That program temporarily brought up the sales volume .But afterwards ,everyone who was going to buy a car had already purchased them under the program ,and a big sales slump occurred.

Only someone reading the stuff from lib bloggers(or listening to the Prez.) could think that computers crashing ;web sites with the wrong information ,dealers in the hock for hundreds of thousands of dollars ,and taxpayers in the hock for another $3 Billion means the program is working .Yet ,when I think about it ;wasting a billion in record time must be a libs wet dream.

[I donated my clunker last month to a charitable organization that cleans them up a bit and auctions them]

[NeedKarma]

Jon Stewart details the process by which a Fox News talking point seed is planted and fertilized before coming to life (in this case Cash for Clunkers):
Jon Stewart Breaks Down Fox's Outrage Generating Ecosystem | Indecision Forever | Comedy Central

Canadian link: The Daily Show with Jon Stewart : August 3, 2009

[inthebox]

I love the way Stewart , just splices out seconds of different clips to make a point.

Sadly funny is his reference to "greenbacks for grannies" program.

He is hilarious with whatever cah for... segment.



Thanks


G&P

[NeedKarma]

Did you notice how he showed that those town hall disruptions are actually organized by paid lobbyists, in coordination with Fox News. TPM has been covering it: Industry-Backed Anti-Health Care Reform Group: Yeah, We're Packing And Disrupting The Health Care Town Halls | TPMDC

Yes, Stewart does do a good job as well.

[ETWolverine]

Did you notice how he showed that those town hall disruptions are actually organized by paid lobbyists, in coordination with Fox News. TPM has been covering it: Industry-Backed Anti-Health Care Reform Group: Yeah, We're Packing And Disrupting The Health Care Town Halls | TPMDC

Yes, Stewart does do a good job as well.

Really?

The DNC put out a memo making that claim yesterday. Robert Gibbs made that claim as well.

So... Who is doing the organizing? Who has gotten paid to show up at a town hall meeting? Cany anyone name names?

Perhaps instead of trying to claim "conspiracy" where none exists, the Dems might instead try finding answers to the questions being asked at these meetings. And if they can't adequately answer the questions, perhaps they should amend the health care bills or withdraw their support until the answers are made available. And perhaps the Dems should try organizing themselves instead of worrying about how the Reps are organizing themselves.

When Sybellius tries to avoid answering basic questions about the health care plan she supports by claiming she's not a member of Congress, there's a problem, and it ain't with the fact that the meetings are being packed by opponents of the legislation.

When Arlen Speculum claims that decisions on a 1000+ page piece of legislation that affects 20% of the economy need to be made "quickly", but can't explain WHY, there's a problem, and it isn't with the fact that meetings are being packed by opponents of the legislation.

When the Administration can't get their position straight on whether they intend to raise taxes or not in order to pay for the budget deficits and national debt caused by this spending and all the other spending this government has done, there's a problem, and it isn't with the fact that meetings are being packed by opponents of the legislation.

If the Dems had answers to these questions, it wouldn't matter whether someone tried to pack the town hall meetings or not. But they don't. And so regular citizens are becoming angry that their questions aren't being answered.

After months of Obama packing his town hall meetings with those who support his positions, and after months cherry picking questions from those who support his legislation and that demonstrate the riteousness of his positions, he and the Dems are finally having to start answering hard questions, and they don't like it.

These town hall meetings are being packed by organizations. They're being packed by regular Americans who have serious questions and no longer are willing to accept the propaganda and careful engineering of Obama's press managers at his press conferences.

After all the organized pressure (read: threats) put on elected officials by Rahmbo behind the scenes, and after the kid-gloves treatment of Obama by the press and the engineering of all of Obama's press events, it's nice to see some hard questions being asked, and to see some elected officials being forced to question their positions.

It's called DEMOCRACY. It's called FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS. And at least for now, they still exist in this country. People are demanding an accounting from their elected officials. That's how things work in a democratic society.

Elliot

[speechlesstx]

Did you notice how he showed that those town hall disruptions are actually organized by paid lobbyists, in coordination with Fox News. TPM has been covering it: Industry-Backed Anti-Health Care Reform Group: Yeah, We're Packing And Disrupting The Health Care Town Halls | TPMDC

Just one more thing to demonstrate the utter hypocrisy of the left...

Democrats would like to play the victim card in response to the hostile pushback against their proposed government takeover of the US healthcare system. The word has gone out from Sen. Democratic Whip Durbin to a raft of lefty blogs to discredit anti-ObamaCare critics and protesters as vicious mobs ginned up by “lobbyist-run groups” like Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks (Josh Marshall gets bonus points for going all the way with the Nazi allusion). From lefty blogs, the message goes directly to the Politico’s Glenn Thrush, Keith Olbermann and CBS News — though CBS conceded that the “turnouts also reflect the real fear over the increased taxes and government controls that are part of the health bills being considered in Congress.”

The role of established conservative groups may be more of following and facilitating the protesters. But even if such groups are becoming more involved in organizing opposition to ObamaCare, the hypocrisy here is rather staggering, given the amount of astroturf involved in trying to sell ObamaCare to an increasingly resistant public. As Michelle Malkin noted upon the launch of the lefty campaign:

On Thursday, a national “grassroots” coalition called Health Care for America Now (HCAN) will march on Capitol Hill to demand universal healthcare. The ground troops won’t have to march very far. HCAN, you see, is no heartland network. It is headquartered at 1825 K Street in Washington, DC — smack dab in the middle of Beltway lobby land.

In fact, 1825 K Street is Ground Zero for a plethora of “progressive” groups subsidized by anti-war, anti-Republican, Big Nanny special interests. Around Washington, the office complex is known as “The Other K Street.” The Washington Post noted in 2007 that “its most prominent tenants form an abbreviated who’s who of well-funded allies of the Democratic Party….Big money from unions such as the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, as well as the Internet-fueled MoveOn, has provided groups like those at 1825 K Street the wherewithal to mount huge campaigns.”

MoveOn, of course, is the recreational political vehicle of radical liberal sugar daddy George Soros. The magnate’s financial fingerprints are all over the HCAN coalition, which includes MoveOn, the action fund of the Center for American Progress (a Soros think tank), and the Campaign for America’s Future (a pro-welfare state lobbying outfit).

Indeed, HCAN includes all of the aforementioned groups, plus the AFL-CIO, ACORN and more. HCAN is conducting a joint campaign with Organizing for America (OFA), the Democratic National Committee-run vestiges of President Obama’s campaign. The astroturf has been on public display at events like Pres. Obama’s healthcare town hall meeting in Northern Virginia, where all of the live questions came from members of SEIU, HCAN, and OFA. Heading into the August recess, the White House and the Congressional Democratic Leadership are working in close coordination with outside groups, including but not limited to, HCAN, Families USA, AFSCME, SEIU, and AARP.

If there is anyone putting their own interests ahead of those they claim to represent, it is the AARP. If there is anyone who should not be whining about vocal anti-Obamacare protests, it is the muscle for money crowd at SEIU and ACORN. If there is anyone who knows about shouting down their critics, it is OFA. If there is anyone without standing to complain about activists getting in people’s faces, it is Pres. Obama.

The Community Organizer in Chief, advised by master astroturfer David Axelrod, has amassed a campaign that dwarfs the efforts of the Right. But they are currently outnumbered and out-messaged on a shoe-string budget, primarily because of the merits of the issue. And that, more than anything, is what has the Left demonizing dissent from ObamaCare.

And don't accuse me of not citing my sources. Since Karl's post, Huffpo has joined in on the smear campaign as well. And perhaps even more disturbing is the White House Ministry of Propaganda is looking for snitches.

Try again, NK.

[speechlesstx]

And one more thing, it was a Republican that co-sponsored the legislation and the main purpose was to get clunkers off the street and get drivers into more fuel efficient vehicles, not rescue auto dealers. In fact, fuel efficiency is mentioned roughly 50 times in the bill.

[NeedKarma]

Try again, NK.

Dear Steve,
Read your buddy ET's post above yours. Apparently packing the hall with organizations is OK, just like in the 60s.

[excon]

Perhaps instead of trying to claim "conspiracy" where none exists, the Dems might instead try finding answers to the questions being asked at these meetings.

Hello again, El:

These aren't meetings, and there are no questions. They're planned disruptions... And, if you believe they're spontaneous, I'm accepting bids on the bridge your cross each morning.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Ex and NK, you act as if planned disruptions and packing the hall is a bad thing. When the left does it it's democracy in action. When the right gets out it's a threat to democracy or "mob rule" as the DNC calls it. Oh, and I repeat for the third time, this White House is looking for snitches. You guys need to open your minds and your eyes.

[spitvenom]

I just read the memo sent out by Bob Macguffie These are organized disruptions. So instead of having an a serious discussion Bob is pretty much telling the people to act like children at these town halls. How do these people expect to be taken seriously? It makes the right (not the people on here) look crazier and more childish by the day. Here is a link to the memo if you didn't read it.

Memo Details Co-ordinated Anti-Reform Harrassment Strategy | TPM Document Collection

[ETWolverine]

Dear Steve,
Read your buddy ET's post above yours. Apparently packing the hall with organizations is ok, just like in the 60s.

You clearly didn't read what I wrote.

Elliot

[NeedKarma]

These town hall meetings are being packed by organizations. They're being packed by regular Americans ...

This is what you wrote ET.