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binx44 · Jun 24, 2010, 09:54 AM

OK, I'll warn you, this may take a little bit of reading

Me and my aunt have brothers from the same litter.. Bulldogs.. Alapaha blue blood bulldogs to be exact..
I'd been having a hard time in my home province, and I moved to Ontario, which ended up being a mistake. On their way through (driving from a family visit in Nova Scotia) my aunt and uncle picked me up and brought me to Alberta with them
I currently am not working (but have been applying to tons of jobs and still no luck. I've been here for three weeks to a month so far), I'm living with them and I'm at my wits end

Their pup, is stubborn, doesn't listen, and has snapped at me once and almost got me (all I did was put my hand down by him while he was outside like I have before to see what he was digging at and to make sure he did not have something that could hurt him), and attacked my pup during eating time once (which was the other day, both occurrences) and he's never done that before. He's taken to chasing the cats, which he did not start doing until this week
..
I've owned many dogs before, and I have trained them all myself, Even Ryu at 14 weeks of age will walk beside me on leash, come on command (most of the time unless he's totally distracted playing out in the yard), sits on command... I've worked with My aunts pup and mine an equal amount, doing the same sort of training with both, no hitting, no rubbing their faces in things, no "Cesar" methods.I do use treat training on occasion for new things such as sit and lay down and work out of having a treat to do it... * I don't believe in forcing a dog down on its back and holding it there is going to accomplish anything* I've trained horses before, with my own no stress method, that me and an old boss developed... and I've never had problems like this with any type of animal. And I've always owned unaltered male dogs.
Owen won't walk on leash, he now will attack Ryu even when he's just laying in the yard trying to get some sun. and this has been happening for the last two days. He is even doing it in the house now.. Attacking Ryu every chance he gets. Now neither of them are fixed. Ryu because he is breeding quality and once he is old enough he is going to be used as a stud dog (I've been doing a lot of genetic research, Artificial Insemination research, breed research) Owen is not fixed either... Which I keep trying to talk to my aunt and uncle and tell them that they should really get him fixed because I honestly do not feel my timid, anti-social, withdrawn aunt can handle an adult dog weighing anywhere from 80 to 100 pounds that is male and unfixed. She can't really handle him now sometimes as he will not walk well on leash or listen. She says she will not get him fixed because he is a rare breed, (there's only a couple thousand registered purebreds in the world. *any of the breed registered with the ARF **animal research foundation** has been "merit registered" sometime in the past. And merit registering does not require the dog to actually be purebred to be called a purebred... **) But in my honest opinion I do not believe he shows the qualities or disposition that you should have in a stud dog that would be used to help promote and preserve the breed.

And on top of it all the people in the house are not listening to the rules (we live with my aunt's two brothers also... ) the rules are simple... No leaving things such as electronics on the floor or footstools as Owen has taken to chewing on cords when no one is around. And my aunt and uncle work weird hours (always in the AM's) and my aunt puts Owen in his crate from 4:00 in the morning (which is when she leaves for work) until I get up around 7:30.. and now people have been letting him out and leaving him out when they leave for work. So he has taken to peeing in the house again, getting into things like the garbage pestering the cats.. barking...
I have suggested puppy classes and then obedience but I do not think they are willing to do that.. because each time I find them an affordable option they just toss it in the garbage... or never bother to look at it...

I'm hitting the point where this is stressing me out something fierce and I cannot do all the work by myself, its not my dog.. and its getting to the point where I want to move out, I can't handle living here with all this stress.. when people don't take my advice... what can/should I do :( :(

shazamataz · Jun 24, 2010, 10:03 AM

Unfortunately there's not much you can do while you are living there.
It's either get onto them about the training and the desexing and risk causing problems, or leave it and get frustrated yourself!

I agree with you, he really does need to be desexed. At such a young age it could really help with the aggression problem. And to be honest, they are "that" sort of looking dog if you know what I mean, so it won't end up good in the long run in terms of what other people think of him.

People tend to think it's not a problem when they are little and can be picked up or moved easily, but when they get bigger, it becomes a HUGE problem, and that's how dogs end up in shelters (or in her case back to the breeder)

The best you can do is try and get your Aunt to have some training sessions with both pups so she can see how Owens progress is compared to Ryus.

I don't want this to come out wrong, so bear with me. I know you want to breed Ryu in the future, but at this age there's really no way to tell if he is breeding quality or not yet. I know when the time comes you will be able to make that decision though. From what I have seen and read he has a beautiful temperament. Sorry, had to say it. :o

asking · Jun 24, 2010, 10:20 AM

I am not a dog expert, but I have studied animal behavior. I think you are right that your aunt's dog needs training. But (1) she's not working with him and (2) it also seems like your presence there with your dog is provoking your aunt's dog's territorial instincts and may be exacerbating the problem.

I think you need to move on to a more peaceful situation, for the sake of you and your own dog.

If you haven't really sat down with your aunt and communicated to her how important you think this is, then maybe you should do that. But the bottom line is that you and your dog are in your aunt's house and your pretty obvious disapproval of how that family lives isn't really going to be very well received. I'm guessing their dog is picking up on some of all this and taking from that some implicit permission to attack your dog. You cannot change that.

You should find your own place.

binx44 · Jun 24, 2010, 11:06 AM

Shaz... Ryu was chosen, with not only my own personal choices, but with the opinions of other breeders, taking disposition of both parents into account, I've seen and been around the two female pups that were in the litter, they are very aggressive, which is unusual if you think about the qualities of both parents. And I also have three long time alapaha breeders already asking to reserve breeding's with him. But I do know what you mean, if in the end he ends up not breeding quality he would be fixed (hes pick of the litter, as chosen by the breeder and is above pet quality) Id give you some rep but it won't let me...

I've included my aunt in the training sessions, she usually just sits and watches no matter how much I try to convince her to join in as it is her dog...

These pups (except for ten days when I was in Ontario) have always been together so they have grown up together thus far and have not acted this way towards each other or the other pets in the household... When I was in Nova Scotia, I kept both pups with me.. Until the day I moved to Ontario, which I left Owen with my cousin for two days and my aunt picked him up from there.

asking... I know I need to move on to a more peaceful situation but currently my own financial situation does not allow this at all as I have a very tiny income (73 dollars a week before deductions until I get a full time job or part time job)

The problems with the rules have only occurred in the last two days also and its only one member of the family not listening, which he is now pissed off with me because I knocked loudly and went into his room (after he said come in mind you) to tell him how I felt about him not listening to the rules everyone has agreed to...

I have sat down with both my aunt and uncle and told them how I feel and my opinions.. and they keep coming up with things like "oh, its not his fault, the weather is making him moody, the earthquake in Ontario (which is super far away) is making all the animals act funny.." it rained the other day, there was a tornado warning but I do not believe that was the cause as if it was all the animals would have been acting differently. But mind you I am no animal behaviorist I am just a person whose been around animals, including dogs her whole entire life..

asking · Jun 24, 2010, 11:28 AM

I didn't realize the pups had been together virtually their whole lives.

binx44 · Jun 24, 2010, 11:29 AM

Its OK asking, I realize now I failed to say that in my original post

binx44 · Jun 24, 2010, 11:52 AM

Aww asking, you still did give good advice though...

shazamataz · Jun 24, 2010, 10:55 PM

I didn't want my post to sound mean at all Michelle! I have just seen mum raise puppies that were pick of the litter only for them to not quite work out (my 2 poodles for example lol) You know how gorgeous I think Ryu is :)

It's such a hard situation.
Do they have a problem with you disciplining Owen? He might need a bit of 'tough love' which it sounds like they aren't going to give him.

And you could always leave one of the offending parties valuables on the floor to be chewed up... that might teach the owners a valuable lesson in sticking to the rules.

Lucky098 · Jun 25, 2010, 08:42 AM

I think if I were you I'd separate the pups completely. Don't allow them to see each other. Your dog may not be aggressive now, but constantly being beat up is going to do something to him. He may just snap.

Also, if I were you.. I think I'd take things into my own hands and start working with Owen separately from yours. Tough love does sound like it needs to happen. If he snaps at you, he needs a consequence.. and it might not be a nice one. He's little now, but he's going to get big. Him bitting you now may hurt a bit, but when he's older, its going to cause serious damage.

Your breed is still a bully. Aggression is going to show up. If I'm correct, those types of dogs were created for plantation farms. They look aggressive for a reason... Your dog may be laid back now, but when he gets older, he could develop a 'tude. It's a good that you're working with him now. However, with the other dog beating him up, something could spark and you will end up with a full out bully beat down.

I hate to say it, but for the welfare of your own dog, maybe Owen needs to be crated more while your dog is out. Its not fair to you either that your aunts dog is antagonizing your dog all the time. For now, you live there too with your dog. If I were you, I'd put Owen in a crate and take him out on his own separate times. Don't allow your dog to get beat up. If the dog goes stir crazy because your aunt can't take proper care of him, then I guess that's on her. If APPA is as strict as you say, they won't accept her dog into the breeding program due to the aggression.

And I agree with Shazzy.. allow for the mistakes to be made. If someone's electronics or shoes get chewed, maybe next time they won't leave their stuff out.

Just stand your ground. You're stuck in this situation for a bit, stand up for yourself and your pup. You all can live in harmony... eventually...

binx44 · Jun 25, 2010, 09:54 AM

So far owen has already chewed their cord on their 200 dollar gaming keyboard, phone cord, and 2 speaker wires... He's crated now when she leaves for work but one specific person in the house says he looks too sad (after she's gone for work and before I'm up in the mornings) and lets him out.. which he is now realizing he cannot do.

Shazzy I didn't take your post rude at all Hun, no worries there... I've spoken to them, I do feel they have problems disciplining him. She in my opinion also treats him too much like a child and not like a dog, picking him up, cuddling him, baby talk, "helping" him get on things (when we all know he can get up on the footstool himself already *they are allowed on one chair and the footstool and will not get on the other furniture at all) going and getting him and picking him up when he won't come in the house...
I've been taking the dogs outside separately. They are ALWAYS walked separately (owen doesn't behave well walking, ryu does and it causes difficulties when trying to walk them together) I can't prevent them from seeing each other.. the size of our home, and location of the only place the crate can fit is right in the living room. They have been getting along today (so far lol) which I know doesn't really mean much. In the house they are always much better than outside though.

He didn't get away with snapping at me, I'm not the one to move away from that and not discipline a dog for it.
I do not plan on living here forever, just waiting for either spring, or a good job for me and a guy I'm really close friends with to come up and he plans on moving up here.(he is who I stayed with while I was in ns after I got the dogs because mom didn't want to deal with 2 pups for more than a few days.. she's so not a dog person).. We've been roommates before and its always worked out well... It is kind of crowded here at my aunt and uncles..
I sat down with my aunt last night.. and told her a little more harshly than I meant to, how I felt, and how things are (again) and I think she might realize how serious I am right now.
I explained the consequences of her dog biting another dog, or person, if it's a stranger or a strangers dog it could cause him to be put down... Yes they were used as plantation dogs, for rounding up cattle and wild pigs. They are also used in the states with Marines and Cops as protection dogs. Weird thing is, they are both awesome with the other dogs on the street, so that's why I don't understand the aggression here at home. I explained to my aunt she needs to spend more time with the dog. That just because her Psychiatrist and doctor said it would be beneficial for her to have a dog doesn't mean she can own one and not do anything with him. I spoke to my uncle, and I found out she hasn't walked him in like a week... and my uncle sleeps during the day because of when he works... she is up until at least 6:30 every evening.
I told her she has to start acting more like a dog owner than a cat owner that he has to be walked every day, she Has to spend time with him, work with him... I even offered to show her what to do as long as she does it herself instead of hoping he's just going to be a good dog... I've talked to my uncle... explained things and he says he agrees with every point I have said to my aunt

shazamataz · Jun 25, 2010, 10:11 AM

That's great you had a talk to both of them, hopefully it sinks in that she really needs to do a lot more with Owen.
The aggression at home could be territorial. Even though he's only young, he still thinks it's 'his' house. The babying wouldn't help either.

My dogs get babied, I admit, but they are adult dogs who have already had the tough love puppy stage. What happens now shapes the dog for the rest of its life.

binx44 · Jun 25, 2010, 10:46 AM

That's what I've been thinking.. Maybe he see's this as his house more... I've told her to stop spoiling him like that.. her response.. but you spoil your dog.. I couldn't help but laugh. Yea I spoil him if you count I walk him upwards of an hour each day (half an hour at a time) I brush him, pet him, and let him sleep where he wants to. Bath him when he's filthy.. but I bathe both dogs.. they do awesome in the tub :D

shazamataz · Jun 25, 2010, 10:56 AM

LOL, and where are the wet puppy photos :D
There's a difference between spoiling and babying.
A bit of spoiling is OK, but treating a dog like it's better than a human isn't. It might make you feel all warm and fuzzy, but it really doesn't help the dog. They need boundaries, just like kids do.

binx44 · Jun 25, 2010, 11:08 AM

FACEBOOOOKKK lol... I've got video of them licking each other to death after their bath. The one ryu jumps in...

I do agree with you there

Cat1864 · Jun 25, 2010, 11:34 AM

Binx, have they started teething yet? Owen may be taking out the irritation on those around him.

It also sounds like he is Bored and is testing his boundaries (place in the pack). It is up to everyone in the house to remind him where those boundaries are. He needs all of his people to teach him what is expected out of him. Who, besides you, is actually paying any attention to him and his mental and physical stimulation? Who will be taking care of his needs when you move out? Where is your uncle in all this?

Do you have the puppy rules written out and posted? It might be an idea to get a calendar and stickers for your aunt and uncle to keep track of walking Owen.

Even if you can't walk Ryu with Owen, can you go for walks with your aunt and Owen to encourage and teach them about walking?

binx44 · Jun 25, 2010, 12:02 PM

Cat,
Teething.. wow... umm I didn't think about that to be honest lol. They haven't lost any teeth yet, but teething could be a problem. They are 14 weeks three days old... its been a long time since I've had a pup.. and when I was younger I didn't think about teething... I do give them a variety of toys to chew on, different textures..
Uncle spends time with him, plays with him when he's awake...

Lucky098 · Jun 25, 2010, 09:20 PM

I hope everything works out OK. :)

binx44 · Jun 26, 2010, 06:48 AM

So do I... Because last night and this morning are stressing me out even more... I get up this morning and there's toilet paper all over the house, ripped up cardboard and owens laying there chewing on my aunts expensive shoes... not only that ryu and I went into the basement to go to bed last night and owen had Pee'd ALL over the area in front of my bed... no ones listening to me, I can't even seem to get my point across that this is becoming a problem... and I'm about to pull my hair out, I'm in a rotten mood, and I have to go to work this afternoon in this mood

asking · Jun 26, 2010, 09:23 AM

Wow! Owen's making a statement all right. Peeing near your bed sounds like territorial behavior. Sounds like he's trying to establish that he's dominant to everyone in the house... He's got his work cut out for him, and so do you...

What a tough situation. I take it one of your cousins let him out again?

binx44 · Jun 26, 2010, 09:31 AM

No it was last night... the dogs are brought downstairs to the gaming room (theres couches and a table and chairs and stuff) because it connects to our bedrooms and its cooler down there.. its getting real hot here most days now. Ryu usually sleeps on the blanket on the floor by my bed.. and owen *rolls eyes* sleeps on the bed with my aunt