[shykitte]

Thanks for writing back - Baty, Ash123 and Talaniman. It really means a lot to me to get feedback from all of you.

In response, no we don't have children. We tried IVF and fertility procedures for almost four years without any success. I got very stressed out with all the hormone injections (they were giving me the highest levels to make me stay pregnant) and the roller coaster emotions and each time the procedure didn't work. Finally I developed a fibroid - which is a side effect if you take hormones, and when I had to have surgery we decided that we would stop trying for a baby.

At one time I used to yearn for children but then we started doing other things like travel (we travel extensively - all over the US and also around the world whenever we can). I love that, its amazing to explore the world. The bad part is that I'm with a "roommate" or "friend", not a husband, exactly as you said in one of your earlier posts, Baty. Our life is also filled with family, friends and work of course. There are much loved nieces and nephews on both sides that we see and keep in contact with all the time. So I don't miss having children in my life as much now, and I don't know if they would have compensated for the lack of physical intimacy from my husband.

Looking at us, no one suspects we have any problems, I guess. I have girlfriends but I find it hard to confide about this to them. There are so many things that I love about our life but sex is a BIG part of married life, and so is physical affection - the hugs, touching each other, kissing, the whole sensation and experience of being close to a person you're in love with. I haven't had a real kiss for years, and it really bugs me at times! Every morning he dutifully gives me a peck before going to work - usually on any part of my face except my lips, and sometimes it's the air..! Sometimes I feel he may be afraid of triggering any passion if he kisses my lips..! (sarcasm there :) )

It's true - you can have everything - the liking, companionship, and like Ash said so well - friendship, a roof over your head and money, but it is an emotional prison if there is no intimacy! I used to feel I was being selfish having so much and still wanting this one thing he couldn't give me, but there's no outlet for my feelings or my needs! Online porn is no substitute for the real thing. What do you do when you crave so much to be touched and held?

Last year I met this friend who used to have a big crush on me. He wanted to have an affair, and tried to kiss me, but I couldn't kiss him back. My husband's face was in my head and I just couldn't make myself kiss this guy's lips - I was so... sort of repelled! Does that make any sense? It's not just that guy, there are a couple of people who I know are interested, but now I'm starting to realize that its not going to be easy to just do it with someone else. I don't know if you feel like that also Baty, especially since you've been in a good marriage for so many years. I don't know anymore. Maybe I'm not ready... I think if I was really excited, I could have sex but I still couldn't kiss anyone other than my husband. I can't imagine kissing anyone but him. He, his personality, his face, his body - he's what I'm attracted to more than anyone else.

But having no sex is now bothering me to such an extent that I think of it all the time; almost to the point of being obsessed with it maybe. I know that the problem with my husband and yours too Baty is not something that can possibly be cured so its not going to go away. I'm sure it must be hard for them also, not being able to function. However, like you, I feel its very unfair on their part to not attempt to meet us halfway or even a quarter way. I wish they would realize how hard it is to curb your body's needs and try to help in any way they can - even if its not much, maybe try to play a little or let us play with them??

[Ash123]

Shy,

You might want to start your own thread :-)

Could be efficient and practical (?)

A

[shykitte]

It did cross my mind Ash.. :)

Sorry because I cut into yours Baty... didn't mean to, it just happened.

[Ash123]

Maybe just cut and paste most of above etc. into a new post... hope u get responses you need.


The intimacy issue is definitely a real epidemic.

[batybird]

Shy: Actually your posts have also made me understand I am not alone, and realize that other people are going through this also. I sometimes tend to think that it is only me. I also liked hearing how your friends think you probably have a wonderful marriage and everything is great. Exactly what most of or friends and family would tell you about my husband and mine. Really shy keep posting and you can email me also. I think it really helps thanks again

[Ash123]

I agree keep posting, just hard to diverge answers if they are asked... into one thread. Otherwise - post away.. shows she's not alone.

[MrEasy]

I've been reading the thread and all the responses. Having suffered a about of depression in my mid-forties, I can somewhat relate and give some insight to what your and ShyKitte's husband are going through. Up until that time, I had a great outlook on life, a positive mental attitude, and a high sex drive. In just a matter of months, it seemed like I was dying on the inside. I was able to function in day to day work life but didn't seem to have any emotion. My sex drive quickly dropped which compounded the depression. Like most men, I started shutting down and isolating myself. I just told myself it must be because I'm getting older and that's just the way it is.
Almost a year later I had to make a business trip out of state and decide to stay with an old friend that I hadn't seen in years. To my surprise, while staying there my friend told me that she was on disability for chronic depression. She started describing what she had been going through and I recognized that I was dealing with the same symptoms but not to the extent she was.
Upon my return, I started researching depression and it's causes. I went to an internist who put me on an anti-depressant but I told him I didn't think it was a mental but a physical problem. After a month of bad reactions and side effects, I went back and convinced him to check my testosterone and thyroid levels. To his surprise my testerone level had bottomed out. This had caused my loss of drive, emotions and sex drive. My level had been high from early puberty. I had to shave at age 11, was balding at age 18, hairy chest and hairy back in my 20's, always muscular, always high sex drive - all signs of extremely high testosterone.
My doctor put me on testerone injections and I started returning to my old self again. That was 12 years ago and I still take testosterone and cycle with anti-estrogen pills. I'm almost 60 and still have a great sex drive.
Any man who suffers from a lack of sex drive or depression should have his testosterone and thyroid levels checked before allowing a doctor to put them on anti-depressants which doesn't help but kills sex drive even more. ED drugs do not create sex drive. They only help with an erection but what good is an erection without enough testosterone to create desire for sex.
As far as ED, there are many things men can do in addition to ED drugs. ED is chiefly a circulation problem that can be restored in many cases without the side effects of ED drugs. I found taking 1-2 tablespoons of liquid fish oil daily along with 1,000-2,000 mg of L-Argnine, 50 mg of DHEA, 400 mg of Magnesium and drinking water instead of soda or other drinks helps me keep good blood flow. I've tried Viagra and Calais with Calais being the preferred choice. I take a 20mg Calais tablet and cut it into 6 pieces. Occasionally I will take one of these little pieces if I'm somewhat exhausted but still amorous. Usually my wife complains because I'm too rock hard. This small amount will do the job without all the side effects of headaches, blurred vision, etc.
I hope this helps.

[kp2171]

MrEasy...

I rated you a positive response, but wanted to thank you again for your response. You bring up good points about physiology, hormones, and ED drugs. Improvements in your vascular system is one of the most important elements of ED correction (along with mental health), especially as we put on some years. Over time our vascular system tends to harden (this isn't the atherosclerosis tied to heart disease) and I'm of the opinion the often ED is tied to many small things whose sum causes the effect.

Your response about asking for testosterone levels to be checked is great.

Your talk about ED drugs not creating a sex drive is spot on.

A question. Do you prefer cialis for its longer half life (meaning you can take it with a longer window of opportunity... leaving you more mentally relaxed with more time to find the right time)? It's a common thing I've seen in studies.. just wondering your take on it.

Welcome to AMHD. Insightful responses are always welcomed, especially those with personal experience.

[MrEasy]

KP2171,
Thank you for the welcome and positive rating. To answer your question about Cialis, I don't take it very often but I prefer it mainly because I can take a small piece 1/6th of a 20 mg. tablet which is enough to be effective for almost 18 hrs. but without all the side effects of Viagra ( headache, lightheadedness, etc.).
While most people are familiar with a woman experiencing menopause, very few have heard of the male version, Andropause. Hormones determine so much more than just our sex drive. They effect the way we think, react, our emotions and even our body build. When they change, we change. It is important that we understand the effects and realize there are things that can be done. We don't have to settle for less. It make take a while to find the right physician but it's worth the effort.

[kp2171]

Thanks for the response again. I've suggested cialis often because its longer effectiveness tends to reduce stress with getting the deed done sooner than later. Glad to hear its worked for you.

And glad you brought up again the issue of hormone levels. Many women experience perimenopause and its effects long before menopause... likewise men are often clueless about hormone levels and the effects (who EVER told us about this?? ).

And your position on choosing a physician is DEAD ON RIGHT. Its worth the struggle and the work to find a doctor who is willing to work hard on your behalf. The stigma of talking about sex unfortunately keeps many from demanding more from their providers and more for themselves.

[shykitte]

Baty: Thank you also! I really wanted to keep in touch with you here because we relate to each other and understand exactly what its like.

[talaniman]

Whatever it takes to reestablish communications, is the key to getting back to a level of him not being isolated, and maybe seeing a doctor. That's the real goal.

This may sound weird, but by not talking, you may have him talking, if for no other reason, to find out what's up with you, and this quiet treatment. Think about how his lack of communication has affected you, and you'll have a clue of how he will be affected.

Backing off his problems, and dealing with your own, may be the only option you have.

[Synnen]

Okay... the whole pregnacy/IVF/hormone/surgery thing probably has a LOT to do with this.

For a while there, sex was to get pregnant. Whether you deliberately made it that way or not, that's got to be there in the back of the head.

Then, when you didn't conceive, HUGE blow to the ego. Did your tests indicate that it was a sperm problem to begin with? Did the problem with conception have to do with HIM, I mean? Men don't deal well with that--it's like having a mastectomy or a hysterectomy messes with women---I mean, it's almost exactly the same thing.

THEN---you have hormone things. I mean, living with the PMS sort of symptoms that come on from IVF is hard from the person going through it---but it's JUST as hard as their partner, who never knows whether it's going to be up or down when they talk to you next.

Add to that the disappointment --on HIS side--of not having children (and many men are JUST as depressed about that monthly flow as women are, when trying to conceive, and just don't feel like they're allowed to show it), well, anyway, when you add it all together, I'm sure he IS depressed, and he DOES see sex as something sort of disappointing, and that maybe--just MAYBE--you're still fixated on the baby thing, and not on the loving him thing. After all, sex was less about him than about having a baby for a while there, whether you meant it to be that way or not.

I no longer think this is JUST depression on his part--I think this is a breakdown of communication that happens to a lot of couples playing the conception game.

You should BOTH go talk to a counselor, and a doctor. I'm betting that when you get to the bottom of this, it DOES end up being the problems you experienced trying to conceive. Women have a hard time getting people to understand the heartache and frustrations that go with Trying to conceive, and men have it worse. I mean, what are they going to do? Complain to their friends that they HAVE to have sex tonight, because it's ovulation time? They really don't have even the sympathy women get on this issue, and it has GOT to be hard for them--especially since they can't justify their feelings on it.

Seriously... you need to BOTH see a counselor on this one, and preferably one that has dealt with infertility in marriage in the past.

[talaniman]

Even if he won't go, you go, and learn, so you will know what to do about you, and how to best help, and understand him.

[shykitte]

Thanks Synnen, Talaniman.

@Synnen: That wasn't the case with us. We never tried for babies with sex, (with the ovulation time thing and all) - as we barely had sex to begin with. So the IVF was purely that (intra-vitro-fertilization). As for the ego thing, I was actually more upset than he was at the time. He was very calm about the whole thing - and in fact he asked me to stop trying after I had surgery. He's not hung up about having kids.

The conception problem was neither his nor my fault - he did have sperm, and I'm normal, as far as the doctors could tell. So not sure what it is - but that doesn't matter now (it was a long time ago - more than 4 years back), and neither of us are fixated any more on the baby thing. We're both in our early 40's and not really interested now in having kids. We considered adoption at one point but our heart wasn't in it so we decided not to. I like the fact that I can play/interact/spoil my nieces and nephews but give them back to their parents at the end of the day. :) We also like our independence and the fact that we can do things without having to worry about schools or schedules or meals etc... or worry about teens acting up and so on.

As for talking to a counselor together, I suggested it a few years back, but he's not interested. I haven't pushed it. I'm realising that the diabetes meds totally take off any sexual desire or passion, so that even a counselor couldn't help much except maybe prescribe more meds. Mr Easy's post made a lot of sense to me.

We actually have a good relationship in every way but this - if you read my earlier posts, you'll know what I mean. Ash123 put it so well when he said earlier that "a partner is in emotional prison over sex, it is so tough. they have money and a roof over head and friendship... so hard to explain to people."

@ Baty: how are you doing?

[MrEasy]

Shykitte, you mentioned that... "the diabetes meds totally take off any sexual desire or passion"... What meds does take? How well does he control his blood sugar? Is he overweight? Does he get physical exercise? Does he have high blood pressure, cholesterol or heart trouble? This would give a better picture of the physical situation. If Diabetes is well controlled, it slows the damage to the body allowing people to function normally for years unless there are other conditions present.

[Ash123]

Maybe you should talk to a counselor alone to get back on track and make next decisions.

[batybird]

Shy and everyone: Things are going along, summer is a very busy time for me so I keep pretty busy with the girls and summer activities. Our son is back home permently now that he's finished college and he just got a full time position in his field (YES!! ) So I am keeping busy with him and his girlfriend and our twins. We just had a benefit for our grandaughter and amazingly my husband stayed the entire day helping out with that and I'm not saying things are improving sexual or intimatly better, but he is TRYING to make a few changes. He has been trying to improve his communication with me as far as talking and I'm definitely not saying life has greatly improved but I guess this sort of change is a gradual improvement on things.

I really think my going about my own scheme of things and not spending time dwindling on what I can change about him has helped. I have actually commented to him how I am biding my time until my ( well our ) girls are finished with high school. He gives me this blank stare, but I think I have gotten through to him. Amazingly when his mother came to the benefit I did not make any attempt to try and talk to her and went about my general duties for the day, I really thought this would push him over the edge because he has always expected me to talk to her and go the extra mile. However that was not even an issue.

I'm not telling anyone that my life has greatly improved, however I am a little... more content with these conditions than I was even 2 weeks ago. He seems to be making a little more effort to get involved on a daily basis with the kids and me again. Maybe I've scared him. Each step gained is wonderful, now if I could just get the affection back I would be tremendously happy. He has been seeing a chiropractor now for about 1 1/2 weeks to see if any of his problems could be the result of his back and neck. This doctor has stated ( not because he asked) that male hormonal and ed could possibly be improved. Hey at least he is willing to go to this doctor and he has asked me to go with his to all the visits so far to hear what this doctor says and does.
Please don't think I have given up, but at least it is a start. I am going on with my life and my kids lives and if he becomes a husband again in my process then I have won some of my battles. Please everyone keep giving your input and opinions, I am listening and reading away.

[batybird]

Has anyone ever heard that chiropractic care could cause ed improve symptoms, I've tried researching this on line and found nothing that seems to pertain to this. Any ideas

[Ash123]

Sounds good!

Baby steps.

A lot of work but as I said at start. I see a lot of potential, but stay focused on mutual happiness as goal.

A