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Home Improvement & Construction Expert
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May 28, 2012, 03:38 PM
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Can you post pictures of switch, ceiling box and breaker?
If wiring is in cables you will see the end of the cable sheathing inside each box. If wiring is in conduit you will see nuts inside each box attaching conduit to box.
Two blacks with one white sounds like conduit. A three wire cable would have one white,one black and one red. Just trying to figure out what some one may have done. Knowing these things help.
You said that the breaker was a double breaker. Are the wires going to each breaker black?
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Computer Expert and Renaissance Man
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May 28, 2012, 04:25 PM
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Here are the pics
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Home Improvement & Construction Expert
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May 28, 2012, 05:34 PM
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Ok, That looks like 2 black and 2 white in switch box and 2 black and 2 white in ceiling box from here. Can't be sure because of shadows.
Pull and straighten the wires in the switch box. Remove the cross bar and pull, separate and straighten the wires in the ceiling box. Post another pic.
From the way the ground wire in the switch box, it looks like someone did some jerry rigging in the past.
After looking again I guess there is only one black and one white in the switch box.
After straightening out all the wires try circuit breaker again just for grins.
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Computer Expert and Renaissance Man
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May 28, 2012, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by hkstroud
Ok, That looks like 2 black and 2 white in switch box and 2 black and 2 white in ceiling box from here. Can't be sure because of shadows.
Pull and straighten the wires in the switch box. Remove the cross bar and pull, seperate and straighten the wires in the ceiling box. Post another pic.
From the way the ground wire in the switch box, it looks like someone did some jerry rigging in the past.
After looking again I guess there is only one black and one white in the switch box.
After straightening out all the wires try circuit breaker again just for grins.
I've basically done that. Just the left the wires unconnected and the breaker continues to trip.
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Home Improvement & Construction Expert
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May 28, 2012, 06:22 PM
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Remove cross bar and send another pic so I can see connections in ceiling box.
Something is shorting out. You need to move the wires around to see is something is shorting to ground because of a break in insulation.
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Computer Expert and Renaissance Man
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May 28, 2012, 06:50 PM
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Here's another pic
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Home Improvement & Construction Expert
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May 28, 2012, 07:24 PM
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..
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Computer Expert and Renaissance Man
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May 29, 2012, 03:19 AM
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Ok, I'll have to do that tonight. But how could this happen all of a sudden?
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Home Improvement & Construction Expert
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May 29, 2012, 07:45 AM
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But how could this happen all of a sudden?
It happened just to ruin your holiday weekend.
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Uber Member
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May 29, 2012, 08:42 AM
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I would try separating all connections in that box, re apply power. If it still trips, have someone reset the breaker while you are in the bathroom, you can sometimes Hear a short.
May actually be in the switch box.
I only see 1 white and 2 blacks coming down from the top.
Is a white hidden, stripped and used for a ground?
Either the 2 pole breaker was all they had, or someone may have used one of the whites for ground(didn't see grounds with incomming wires, but do see a bare ground wire).
2 Pole breakers used for 120 volt circuits, is usuall done when 2 circuits on opposite phases share a neutral. You may want to remove the panel cover and check the whites that are run with the 2 black wires on the breaker, see where they go what they do(Ground/neutral)?
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Computer Expert and Renaissance Man
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May 29, 2012, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by hkstroud
It happened just to ruin your holiday weekend.
LOL
Ok here is another pic hopefully this is clearer
There are 4 wires coming from the top, 2 whilte, 2 black and 2 wires coming from the left, 1 white and 1 black. 1 white from the side is twisted with one white from the top. One black from the top is alone. These two connected to the white and black on the fixture. The black from the side and the other white and black from the top are twisted together.
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Junior Member
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May 29, 2012, 02:47 PM
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Scott, the picture of the breaker helps a lot. You originally called it a 2 pole breaker. But the picture of the breaker you show is actually called a piggy back breaker. It acutally takes the place of one full size single pole breaker and gives you 2 separate breakers on that same phase. The 2 pole breaker comment made things a little confusing. It is still had to believe that fixture is the only thing on that breaker.Being an older house a lot of times they would put lights and recepts on the same circuit.
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Computer Expert and Renaissance Man
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May 29, 2012, 03:23 PM
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Sorry if I used incorrect terminology. While I have done some electrical work in my time (including adding circuits to my panel) I'm not well versed on the lingo.
I have checked the house and not found any other light or outlet that doesn't have power. I can't say I've checked everything, but close.
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Uber Member
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May 29, 2012, 04:23 PM
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I would separate the connections in that box and try the breaker again.
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Uber Member
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May 29, 2012, 04:27 PM
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If you separate the connections and it doesn't trip, it will be narrowed down as you connect each wire.
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Home Improvement & Construction Expert
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May 29, 2012, 10:09 PM
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Obviously there is a short some where that is tripping the breaker. Also, there is some other outlet or light on this circuit. The short is most likely either in the outlet you have not yet found or in the wire bring power into and out of the ceiling box.
Disconnect the bare ground wire from the ceiling box and make sure that it is not touching the box in any way. Make sure that the wires in the switch box are not touching the box. Then try reseting the breaker again. If the breaker does not trip the short is in the black wires bring power into and out of the box or in the white wire going to the switch.
If the breaker continuies to trip after removing the bare ground wire the short is most likely in the outlet you have not yet found. Disconnect and separate the three wires (two black and one white) in the wire nut. Reset the breaker again. If the breaker does not trip the short circuit is most likely in the outlet not yet found.
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Uber Member
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May 30, 2012, 06:17 AM
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Scott, whatever happened when you separated the wires?
I don't think the ground is connected to anything. It doesn't look like the ground needs to be dealt with.
Are the wires soldered together and won't separate?
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Computer Expert and Renaissance Man
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May 30, 2012, 06:52 AM
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I'm going to try separating them and testing tonight.
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